Before a person runs the Audyssey program to set up their speakers where should the settings be set at on the Sub;

1. Subwoofer Level

2. Subwoofer Cut-Off Frequency

3. Sub./Sat. Phase Alignment


Tks, Adrian

According to my Denon manual they recommend setting the volume gain on the sub itself to the 1/2 way point and turn the crossover knob to it highest setting so it does not interfere with the receiver crossover before running Audyssey. It really doesn't matter what the settings on the receiver are because after you run Audyssey it will set its own distances for the speakers/sub, crossover point and sw/speaker levels on the receiver. In my experience other than the distances the settings I found were not beneficial. I would double check everything because sometimes it will set speakers to large when in fact they should be set to small and sometimes the crossover points are set way too high. For the phase I would leave it set at 0. Audyssey is very dependant on the user. Others swear by it and find it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I still like my SPL meter :).

Tks, Doc. The first time I ran Audyssey(yesterday) I basically left all three in the 12:00 position(halfway). I played a couple of movies and things sounded excellent, however since then, when watching a basketball game I hear an annoying(exaggerated) "thunk" when the ball hits the rim for instance. So I figured I'd just turn the level down a little but that seems to have cancelled what audyssey set up and now the sub signal has dissappeared altogether (I'll run Audyssey again tomorrow). I believe Audyssey had the fronts on large and a crossover of 40hz which doesn't sound right, does it?

What is the subwoofer level set to on the receiver?

-12db

Adrian, the level setting on the sub should be at a point where after the calibration the sub trim on the receiver isn't either all the way down or all the way up. Starting out anywhere between 1/4th and half is okay, and if the trim was set all the way down by the auto-calibration that means that the sub level setting was too high to start and has to be lowered for another calibration try. The opposite(higher sub level control to start)if the trim was set all the way up.

The sub "crossover"(lowpass filter, actually) control should be set to bypass, if available, or otherwise set all the the way up to get it as far out of the way as possible of the crossover that the receiver will do.

The phase control should be left at zero. Part of the reason why the sub distance will often be set far from the actual distance by the auto-calibration is that Audyssey is using the distance adjustment to correct for phase differences between the sub and speakers at the listening position.

Seeing your results now, set the sub level control lower for a re-try so that the -12 will be higher. The auto-cal ran out of room and couldn't lower it enough.

Also manually set the mains to small with an 80Hz crossover.

Ok that is a problem. That -12 setting is set way to low and the receiver is not sending enough voltage to the sub. If you want to use Audyssey I would turn down the volume gain one the sub itself to half of what it is set to now and re-run Audyssey so you get a much higher setting on the receiver. If not all you have to do is adjust the volume knob down on the sub and adjust to a higher level on the receiver to your liking. When setting up a subwoofer I start it at -4 on the receiver (with proper adjustments on the sub) and adjust the level up on the reciever accordingly to level match.

Tks, John. I'll run Audyssey again tomorrow with the level at, say 10 o'clock instead of 12, set the lowpass filter to bypass and turn the phase control off.

The sub was set too high I'm sure because it seemed to pick up on very simple things like when, for instance, I watched some of Obama's speech the other night and I kept hearing a dull thud every so often. When they panned the camera angles back, I saw what it was....the President was tapping his hand on the podium every once in a while, lol. It was annoying though.

Thanks for the advice, I'll do that tomorrow.

And when you turned it down you were lacking bass? This is easily solved Adrian. You just have to find a happy medium between the levels set on your receiver and sub.

That makes sense Doc. Maybe I should back off the sub a little more still. I'm still learning this reciever as well I should mention(Denon 2809). Until yesterday I had been using it for music(in stereo) only, and yesterday got the surrounds up on the wall and the rest of my Banana plugs/cabling hooked up, then ran Audyssey...sounds like I had all the settings wrong on the sub to begin with.

Despite all this, I watched 'Master and Commander' on BD, and was amazed, as I'm sure many of you were, at the realism of the cannons, the creaking of the boat, splintering of the wood, walking on deck(above) ect.

Its not your fault Adrian you did nothing wrong. My Denon manual says to adjust the sub to the half way point as a starting point, however not all subwoofers are the same. In your case it is too high and on other subs that would be too low. Some are really sensitive and need little gain adjustment on the sub and receiver and others need a much higher voltage sent to them to perform properly. I always strive for a setting close to 0 give or take.

There is a master Audyssey thread on AVSforum in the Audio Subwoofer section, including a document with step by step setup. I would think if you had all your speakers/sub calibrated to say 75dB, speakers set to small, and 80hz crossover in the receiver, that would put in you a good starting point to then run Audyssey. Those or Audysseys recommendations anyway.

Did you guys use Audyssey or did you prefer to set up manually?

Hi, Randy. I was reading a thread on AVS an hour ago to get some info as well, thanks.

Yeah, the Word document link in that master thread is a good article to follow, as well as the FAQ section on Audyssey's website.

What I did with my Denon 789(1909) was to set the sub (EP500) to about 1/4, xover bypass (or as high as it goes) and phase 0. I run the first Audyssey pass which sets the distance and levels, then run the calc and check the level settings. Check to see if the sub's level is close to 0, this gives you room to adjust. Adjust the sub's level and rerun the first step,if needed. If it's at +/- 12 you don't have much maneuvering room. Then restart the auto setup and do all the Audyssey sweeps. After set the LPF to 120 and any speaker settings from large to small. Audyssey does not decide large/small for the speakers, this is done by the receiver based on the info supplied by Audyssey.

If I ever break down and get an Audyssey receiver, it will be interesting to figure 3 subs into the mix.

No problem, just get a receiver with 3 sub outs

Randy, get one with Audyssey666, it'll EQ spirit peaks.

onn, not aware of to many receivers with 3 sub outs, only the highest end Denon's have it as far as I'm aware... $$$$

I just reran Audyssey with the sub level at slightly less than 1/3, the crossover on bypass, and the phase control at "0". This netted me a sub reading of a more reasonable -7db vs -12db, I may go to 1/4 on the sub level but it's much better now...no booming while watching TV, and still plenty of bass in the movies. Tks, all...Adrian.

BTW, Mark...that Audyssey666 is a very hot seller from what I've heard.

What sub do you have? On the Axiom EP 500 and 600's, most of us are at around 6 o'clock, straight down.

Paradigm DSP3400.

Does that sub use an auto/on feature?

BTW Adrian what crossover points did auddessy set for your surrounds and center channel?

Yes, the sub turns on when it detects a signal.

The readings that I got from Audyssey were as follows:

Fr Left......-4.5db

C Chan.......-4.0db

Fr Right.....-4.5db

Sur Left......0.0db

Sur Right....-6.0db

Sub..........-7.0db

Keep in mind, this is not a "dedicated HT"....the big difference in surrounds would likely be due to the fact that the Left rear corner is rather bare(drywall) with an adjacent double glass garden doors(with blinds)and slightly farther from the main seating position, and the Right rear is closer to the main position as well as having more furniture close by. That could explain the large db variation from L to R in the rear corners.

Audyssey set the folowing crossovers:

Front...Large...40hz

Centre..Small...60hz

Surround...Small...120hz

The crossover points I would play around with. For the center channel you should also try a crossover point of 80hz. With the surrounds I might go with a lower crossover point than what auddessy set of 100hz, 90hz or 80hz. You might also want to set your M80's to small and try crossover points of 80hz, 60hz and 40hz. Some people prefer to set the M80's to large and like the "double bass" others can find the bass "boomy" depending on the room.

Good luck Adrian

Thanks for the recommendations.

Adrian, I know Chris from Audyssey recommends setting all speakers to small, and a 80hz crossover.

Chris just wants to feel like a giant.

I've set all speakers to small, with an 80hz crossover on all speakers to try it for a while. So far, definitely less bass from the L and R fronts with the 80hz vs Audyssey's 40hz(and 'Large setting'). I'll do some experimenting with the settings for a few days to see what I like best.

I'm confused...when speakers are set to 'large' do they not get everything and the xover is moot?

Certain receivers like Denon have a setting called LFE + Mains and when the mains are set to LARGE they will receive a full range signal. The subwoofer will still play the LFE channel, the low frequencies below the crossover from the speakers that are set to SMALL and the low frequencies from the FR and FL main channels based on the crossover setting.

Well, that's at least one place I'm in agreement with Audyssey! All to Small, and 80 Hz.

Regards,

Alan

Adrian,

By all means experiment with different crossover frequencies, especially for the main left and right front speakers. Not everyone at Axiom agrees with me. Ian likes to use either 40 Hz or 60 Hz for his M80s, whereas I use 80 Hz. If I use a lower frequency, I get too much deep bass.

But you should definitely use 80 Hz for the QS8s and your center channel.

Alan

Thanks, Alan. It's a little odd that Chris at Audyssey would recommend an 80hz crossover on all speakers and running Audyssey tells me 40hz fronts/60hz centre/120hz surrounds. I am finding myself preferring the extra bass up front somewhat, but I'm giving 80hz all round a try for now...they both sound very good, just using the lower crossover seems to bring the bass more forward in my setup.

Chris does not recommend 80hz if Audyssey finds your crossover higher as measured "in your room". Do not turn them down.

Large vs Small is determined by your AVR. Denon and newer Onkyo uses 40 hz to make that decision. Older models use 80 hz. Set the mains to small and choose a higher number - 60 to 80 hz.

Audyssey had my mains "Large" with a 40hz crossover, and my centre on "Small" at 60hz which sounded fine to me, but many seem to recommend a "Small" setting all 'round with usually an 80hz(average).

Adrian,

Grab a beer and read this article.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/bass-management-basics-2013-settings-made-simple/

Excellent link, there are some noteworthy points on there.

-they recommend setting the sub crossover at 10hz ABOVE the lowest freq. the towers can cleanly handle(M80s, we know, can reach quite low).

-they seem to lean more towards a lower(than 80hz) crossover to not localize the subwoofer location.

-it sounds to me(maybe I'm wrong) that Audyssey set my mains to 'Large' and at 40hz because they can go deep, cleanly.

I may try a crossover of 60hz tomorrow, at 80hz, I'm sometimes able to tell where the sound is located. As has been mentioned, some recievers only have the default setting of 80hz where others are more flexable, so I'll tinker with this some more.

Thanks for the link, Doc, it's very helpfull and informative.

I have a Denon and know about the LFE+Main setting. I always thought that if you set a speaker to large it receives all frequencies and none are crossed over to the sub.

I believe that is correct, as a general matter. But regardless of what an AVR is calling it, if the crossover is 40hz, then that is where it is crossed over. So Small at 40 or Large at 40 should not matter at all.

And in general, this advice about crossing over lower than 80hz makes perfect sense and cures my problem with the "traditional" put it on small and 80 and forget about it. The sub should work in the very lowest end. The higher the frequency, the more localization you get, and the more your image degrades as a result. If you mains work cleanly to 50, then cross at 60 (most have 12db (??) roll off so still getting some 50 and 40 hz material) and set the sub to pick up at 70hz (again rolling in to run full steam at 60).

The traditional arrangement was, I think, based on the fear many users had cheap and/or small speakers that could not actually get down to 60, or even 80hz, cleanly. Distortion in bass is less noticeable so they let the sub have it, as even cheap subs can make an 80hz sound, but a driver making 600hz sound and distorting on 60hz material will sound bad. That was a bad deal for people with good gear, and I was am surprised how many people crossed over great towers at 80hz because that was the default Dolby setting.

Glad to see it is improving. Now I need a new AVR so I can run my towers at small/large and cross at 40 or 50. Right now I use large as 80hz is my only option, but imaging in much better with the towers running full range (down to their internal crossover point).

Nope, that is what the '+ Main' is with that setting, if the mains are set to large, the sub and the mains get the frequencies below the crossover.

yup, dat be it.

I've more-a-less settled on all speakers on "small" with the mains crossed over at 60hz, the centre and surrounds crossed at 80hz, seems a good combination of a little more bass up front without localizing the sub.

If my dang receiver allowed for independent crossover settings for each speaker, I would most likely have my 80's lower than 60, but I've found lower than that, OR by using Direct mode is to much bass up front.

Randy, I found that was the case if I used the 'Large' setting and 40hz crossover that Audyssey recommended...was almost overbearing basswise. I didn't mind it when playing concert DVDs or movies so much, but regular TV it seemed too much.

Every time I have this right, I read another post about it and get confused again. I'm a visual thinker so please tell me what I need to change below.

The large and the LFE + Main settings are reversed.

That's what I was thinking, Jay.

Me too but it was this posting that had me confused and self doubting enough that I started sketching according to what I thought you said below. I obviously got your intent of the word "nope" backwards.

Thanks!!

Lets try this one.

.

What receiver are you talking about. If I set my Denon the Large for my mains, then my options for sub are "LFE" or "LFE + Main".

Murph, it looks right now.

Murph's last diagram is indeed correct.

Regards,

Alan