There is no bass, lack of soundstage. After changing to the vintage amp the sound is complete different, the ammount of bass I expected on my Denon are there, the sound is more... Well best in every single aspect. It is like having a complete new speaker. Just so you can see the difference, when listening to 2 channel mode ( pure direct ) my wife would say she hated. for that reason I would only listen to music on 5 or 7 channel stereo mode, but when the Sansui ( vintage one ) were hooked up she even asked me if all the speakers and the sub was on. She said the sound was much better, almost like when all speakers are on.
Ichigo, if that's an accurate assessment and not just due to a difference in volume levels as I mentioned in the other thread, then something is wrong with the 3310 you have or you in some way(can't even guess, except are you sure the speaker wires were connected with the right polarity?)have it set wrong. Operating correctly, no receivers of that quality have the slightest problem with bass reproduction or lack sufficient channel separation for optimum sound staging. Perhaps you should have it checked.
it is possible you have something set wrong in the Denon menus.
Ichigo, I think your your situation is much different than mine. The problem with my Pioneer is it gets really distorted at higher volume. Not extremely high. There really is not a difference at low to moderate volume between the Onkyo and Pioneer. So I am sure there is an issue with the Pioneer. Like sirquack says, it sounds more like something is wrong in your settings on your Denon.
You might consider doing a reset on your Denon to factory settings. Last week I noticed that the surrounds on my 3805 were not working at all except for test tones and 5 channel stereo mode. A reset solved the problem. I know it's a different issue than yours, but it's worth a try in my opinion.
Maybe try checking the bass management for stereo listening. On the Denon that I have (which I think is fairly similar to yours), you can set it differently for stereo mode from multi channel mode. If your fronts are set to small and you turn the sub off manually, no frequencies below your crossover setting will be sent to your fronts, if I'm not mistaken. Even in pure direct mode.
Maybe try checking the bass management for stereo listening. On the Denon that I have (which I think is fairly similar to yours), you can set it differently for stereo mode from multi channel mode. If your fronts are set to small and you turn the sub off manually, no frequencies below your crossover setting will be sent to your fronts, if I'm not mistaken. Even in pure direct mode.
I already did that and the settings for bass are on max. I have not been very clear though is that the speakers are being compared without a sub. When listening on stereo mode the sound is good but there still the missing part of the bass. After changing to the Sansui amp the woofers have a very nice vibration, giving me a better sound. Well the main thing is that as said before I have not been fully happy with my M22´s because I thought they lacked power when in the end it looks like my Denon was lacking the power to drive them.
it is possible you have something set wrong in the Denon menus.
It is possible. I have tried many settings though and none of them seems to make any difference.
You might consider doing a reset on your Denon to factory settings. Last week I noticed that the surrounds on my 3805 were not working at all except for test tones and 5 channel stereo mode. A reset solved the problem. I know it's a different issue than yours, but it's worth a try in my opinion.
In my case I believe it will not make a difference since the speakers were first hooked up with factory settings and even after changing many settings there were no improvement on the listening. ( Pure mode )
Ichigo, if that's an accurate assessment and not just due to a difference in volume levels as I mentioned in the other thread, then something is wrong with the 3310 you have or you in some way(can't even guess, except are you sure the speaker wires were connected with the right polarity?)have it set wrong. Operating correctly, no receivers of that quality have the slightest problem with bass reproduction or lack sufficient channel separation for optimum sound staging. Perhaps you should have it checked.
Thanks for the tip. Good to get more knowledge from people like you and others here on the forums!
As always you guys are very helpful.
Since I first logged here, heard many people saying that they prefer 2 channel mode music listening and I could not enjoy that till now. I will try to change some settings some more and if that does not work, Denon custommer service awaits me.
Just for fun and to see if there is something wrong with your reciever, try setting your fronts to "large" and listen in pure direct.
If your receiver is working properly, there should be no way you aren't getting the same bass and spl as with the old vintage amp. The 3310 is a nice receiver, lots of power.
Just for fun and to see if there is something wrong with your reciever, try setting your fronts to "large" and listen in pure direct.
If your receiver is working properly, there should be no way you aren't getting the same bass and spl as with the old vintage amp. The 3310 is a nice receiver, lots of power.
Ok I will try that soon. Just got my vintage Marantz stereo tuner delivered and need to check that first.
Don't overlook the point I mentioned about checking the polarity of the wiring. If the two speakers were fighting each other because the wiring was reversed at some point, poor bass and imaging would be two of the effects.
Just for fun and to see if there is something wrong with your reciever, try setting your fronts to "large" and listen in pure direct.
If your receiver is working properly, there should be no way you aren't getting the same bass and spl as with the old vintage amp. The 3310 is a nice receiver, lots of power.
I followed your suggestion and it really seems to myself that the bass is lacking on my Denon. I will be getting a spl meter just to make sure the volume is matching .
As for now I am listening to music only on my vintage amp (2 channel mode, which sounds really good to my ears now). So the Denon is only being used to watch movies.
Don't overlook the point I mentioned about checking the polarity of the wiring. If the two speakers were fighting each other because the wiring was reversed at some point, poor bass and imaging would be two of the effects.
It seems to be it was everything right where it was supposed to be. Well I am looking for a spl meter to sort things out.
Just to double check, reverse the + and - wires running to one of the speakers when connected to the Denon.
Just to double check, reverse the + and - wires running to [b]one of the speakers when connected to the Denon.
What is supposed to happen?
It's supposed to sound better!
one way, the speakers are in phase; that way, when someone speaks in a movie, the sound will be centered between the left and right speakers.
the other way, if you reverse the connections on one of the speakers, they are now out of phase.
the same person speaking in a movie will have the voice all spread out across the front stage, like the "voice of god" in old movies.
the sound comes from all directions at the same time, so it's not focussed.
good enough?
have a super day. :-)
It's supposed to sound better!
Well as for me it seems the sound is not good. Although the tweeter from the speaker that has the wire changed seems to give a louder sound. (after covering both of them with my hands, the one that has the wire changed keeps on giving some good sound whilst the other does not).
one way, the speakers are in phase; that way, when someone speaks in a movie, the sound will be centered between the left and right speakers.
the other way, if you reverse the connections on one of the speakers, they are now out of phase.
the same person speaking in a movie will have the voice all spread out across the front stage, like the "voice of god" in old movies.
the sound comes from all directions at the same time, so it's not focussed.
good enough?
have a super day. :-)
That should be interesting. Do you keep one of them out of phase?
Thanks for the help have a super day you too!
you put them out of phase only for checking.
they should be in phase all the time.
it's only 2 speakers or more that can be out of phase, relative to another one.
one speaker can't be out of phase with itself; except maybe 2 woofers in the same box can be out of phase, but we're not talking about that here.
Yeah, if it sounded worse than before, then it didn't fix anything. Switch it back. It was just a test, but I didn't want to give you the answer up front, else you might hear it.
Don't switch the wires IN the speaker! Switch the wires from the speaker to the receiver.