I bought a Squeezebox Touch and plan to implement it - controlled primarily with iPads - as my primary music source.

I need help with various approaches to where the data lives and how the 1's and 0's fly about.

I'm trying to read through some of the SB forum posts (Thanks, Rick!) but a lot of them are very specific or problem related. And you guys have always been so kind and gracious, I figured I'd start a thread here, too.

Is there ANY advantage to having all the music stored on an external USB drive attached directly to the SB?

If I install SB Server on a network PC, does it have to be on the same machine where the music is located? Is it "better"?

For SB server to run, does a user have to be logged in to that machine, or is it enough for it to be "on"?

Do you have advice about tools, methods or procedures to make sure the SB Library is tidy and robust?

Are there indispensable third-party apps for this environment?

Thanks, guys. I've been through a LOT of ways to access music over the years; I sure hope this is "the one".

One advantage to having the music directly connected to the SB would be that you wouldn't need the PC on to play music. Saves energy. I suspect you will not need the PC logged in in order to access the music, although I have no direct experience with SB.

The main advantage already pointed out is that it is independent of a separate server.

You didn't ask, but here are some disadvantages:
- If you add another Squeezebox (Radio, Boom, etc.) then you find yourself wanting to switch to a central Squeeze Server.
- Every time you get new music (download or CD rip) you have to manually copy it to the drive.
- Library operations (browsing, indexing, etc) are slower and can get pretty slow if your collection is huge.

The music just needs to be accessible as a directory from the PC running the server. This means a network-mounted "drive" is fine.

Locally stored music is "better" in that it does not depend on yet another machine being on and accessible. If the network drive is slow to access then the speed of library operations can become a factor, especially for huge music collections.

It enough for it to be "on" if you install the SB server as a service. This is the way I run mine. I also have my PC set to Wake On Lan (WOL) which means the PC powers itself up when I turn on my SB Touch and access music.

I use MediaMonkey, but this is a personal thing. I have configured MediaMonkey to auto-rename and organize files by artist, album, title, etc. I also use it to play music when I am at my PC (which is not where my Touch + Axioms are).

I use Mp3tag (free) to tweak mp3 and flac tags. I use dbPowerAmp to rip CDs.

Tom I don't know if you took peek at the Vortexbox link in my other post or not but that's the storage (1TB) system I use and absolutely love it, for a non-techy type like myself it's exactly what the doctor ordered. You can either use the free open source software and build your own Vortexbox out of an old PC or buy the appliance as I did and have a complete plug and play system, it completely rips, grabs the cover art as well as all of the music information for each disc that is ripped.

It is compact, designed to stay powered on 24/7 with very little energy usage, is completely independent of our PC and I can do any upgrades, monitor ripping status or do any VB maintenance from the iPad.

Matter of fact, Henry is the gentleman who turned me on to the VB appliance to begin with ... Thanks Henry.

I've been using the VB with a SB Touch and a Classic for about four months and can't be more pleased with the results of the entire system, absolutely worth every penny I've invested.

Good lord, Rick, does that Vortex Box make double-sided copies, too?

Thank you both VERY much. I'm plowing through the wiki now, too, and that helps a bit. But there is no substitute for counsel from experienced friends.

I don't know that I need/want a dedicated box for this. I may have to ponder the available resources in the context of this new demand. I can't seem to get my kids or my wife to shut their machines off anyway, so maybe if I reconfigure the overall storage/server/backup scenario, I can get it down to ONE machine on all the time. I will definitely look at the Vortexbox software stuff, Rick. Thanks for the additional info and patient prodding. Do you know if the Vortexbox can ALSO be used as a general file server (documents, pictures, etc.)?

I am glad you like it. I was on the verge of buying one when I recommended it to you. Then stuff happened and I had to spend money and time elsewhere for a while. Yet every time I have a new CD to rip I am reminded that even a techie like me could do with a Vortexbox for sheer convenience.

Absolutely, yes: http://vortexbox.org/about/

Vortexbox is actually just (free) software. They make money by selling read-made appliances with Vortexbox pre-installed and optimized. One of the reasons I still dilly-dally on going with Vortexbox is because I can't decide if I want to buy their appliance or put together my own.

Oh. So, now I'm going to really have to think about all this. Harumph.

Great thread. I still haven't arrived at my perfect media streaming solution, so it's nice to read about what others are doing. Tom, I'm absolutely jealous of the price you got on the Squeezebox Touch.

I'm still trying to clean up my digital music library. There are always inconsistencies when I let the ripping software name stuff on its own, so if I don't catch it, I go back in and edit the stuff on my own. I'm also still trying to get pretty album artwork for all of my stuff. I think I'm going to tweak the organization of my files with subdirectories for bootleg-type live material to keep it separate from the files I'll play more often. It's all a work in progress.

One of these days I'll outline how I've done everything, but I imagine it's never going to be as elegant as what some of you have done. I look forward to seeing where you end up with your own setup, Tom. I have a Synology NAS (DS210+)that should be able to run Squeezebox Server software on its own if I end up going with that route, but I haven't done any reading about how effective it is.

Ideally, the next pre-pro or receiver I get will have a great interface for streaming music from my NAS. It's only a matter of time, right?

Thanks for the comments, CV.

I'm still trying to clean up my library, too. It's pretty frustrating, because I am - by nature - a pretty organized person. My job duties are primarily in database management. I considered an MS in Library Science. Yet, I can't seem to get everything tagged just right and acquire all the images I need. It's supposed to be "fun" not "work", right?

I've considered getting an NAS, but just using USB drives or old desktops has always seemed both cheaper and more powerful to me. My son is currently using the oldest desktop in the house (socket 939, baby!), which is in a beautiful case and actually started life in the living room many years ago. It would be PERFECT for a vortexbox solution. So, my quandary becomes when to spend the money and whether to buy him a new desktop or a laptop, I guess.

At least initially, I'm just going to load squeezeserver on the Vista Core2 Duo that serves as my daughter's desktop and our fileserver.

I suspect most of my short-term work will be in cleaning things up rather than system architecture.

I'm not as optimistic as you are about the great interface on the receiver. I think it's a lifestyle thing. For some reason, I just really don't want to HAVE to have the TV on when I'm listening to music. Now, if the receiver had a built-in SB or other streaming client that you could control from an iPad... I guess that's "the thing" for me - controlling the music from an iPad. It's kind of like our previous discussions about Android Tablets, except I finally drank the kool-aid.

If all these technology chips keep falling at my house, I will also have a "surplus" Zotac ZBox which is currently running Ubuntu. It would also make a fine candidate for Vortexbox, but all the stuff that makes that configuration sing would need to be external via USB (the optical drive, the big storage). I'm not sure how that would work. I understand you can solve these kinds of problems with time and money.

I'll keep learning and I will report back.

Hi-ya Tom –

I’ll tell you what I have, and what I do. I’m not advocating it or suggesting you do the same, but you’ll at least have one more data point to reference.

A few back (three??) I decided to rip my CD collection after giving up on the Mega-changers (1200 – 1500 CD’s, and what a bitch that was). I think you recall all we did with those damn silly things….

So firstly, I screwed up ripping when I first started. I started out being cheap and used EAC. After several hundred later, I found out just how hard it is to properly tag and collect album art - after the fact. I then moved over to DB Power amp. Sure wish I would have started with this as it collects album art and does a fairly good job with tagging. It also levels playback DB levels. It also has a dual rip function for ripping two formats simultaneously. (I use FLAC for the home system and MP3 for my I Pod that resides in my vehicle).

I did not want my home PC running all the time and I do not like any other sort of software on my home PC that I can not easily move to another PC every two years or so. I like to keep it for work related stuff, like CAD. So…I ripped everything to an HP Media Server. I installed Squeezebox Server on the HP. The server runs all the time and I also use it to back up my other PC’s and external hard drives. I have it partitioned as well in the event I loose one of the drives. You can stuff four drives into the thing and I believe you can get 2T drives. I have four 1T drives and they are more than enough for me.

When this system works, it is brilliant and I’m happy.

It doesn’t work all the time and I’m often agitated.

The squeezebox software is a memory hog and the server often freezes to the point that I need to perform the good ol’ “hard re-boot” by use of the power button.

The stinking rotting squeeze box player often has to be reset to factory defaults in order for it to re-connect to my network. This happens just about every time we have a power outage (which is often). I’m sure I am partially to blame, as my patience with network issues is very low and I just don’t want to screw with it to find out what might be configured incorrectly, but I do know for certain that the stinking rotting SB player does not reconnect when just about everything else in the house does. I’m blaming the SB Player.

I should also note that I am using the SB Duet and the Touch may be more reliable. I’ve been pondering what to do next before I move to the Touch, or some other method to listen to my digital library, as well as Pandora and Rhapsody.

Thank you, Mike.

Yes, I definitely recall the ripping/storage discussions. And I, too, abandoned the megachangers.

I'm surprised about the memory-hogitude and also about the network reconnection problems. Are you using a wired or wireless connection for the SB?

I like your approach, and I'll probably do something similar. However, I'll almost certainly cobble something together using existing or reconfigured system components rather than buy a new, dedicated server.

Pity about the stinking rotting. But I just don't see any approaches that look "better" to me at the moment.

I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

Tom I have tried using both wired and wireless player connections. I have about the same luck with either configuration. If you cruise the squeeze box forums, and do search on "connection issues", or something to that effect, you'll see dozens of threads. It is a common problem with the Duet. I really hope the Touch does not share these issues, because I absolutely love the stinking rotting thing WHEN IT WORKS. It's a terrific concept and there's nothing cooler than searching for songs on Rhapsody with a bunch of drunk reminiscing friends (I adore Rhapsody). But....when it starts acting up, the fun turns to frustration.

Mike I'm wondering if that is an issue primarily with the Duet. I've never had problems with either my Classic or Touch and like you we have our share of power outages here in south Florida.

That's good to know Rick, thanks!

Damn, I'm late to a Sqeezebox discussion but I'm glad to see all your questions getting answered. Stupid vacations. Umm Wait!!

Mike, I never have to reboot my SB server either. If I do, it's likely I did something experimental stupid and had to reboot the whole PC. My Classic player does require a manual reconnect after a power bump though. No biggie though, just keep hitting the right arrow button on the remote a few times until it reconnects.

I'm pretty meticulous with my tags but I still find discrepancies now and then. "MP3Tag" is a great tool for identifying and fixing discrepancies. It will let you view as many folders and subfolders together as you want so you can do mass changes where you have made a mistake just for certain albums.

For instance, you notice you have two Artist listings for "The Tragically Hip" because you forgot the "The" for a single album when you ripped it. Choose your "The Tragically Hip" folder and you will also see all sub-folders. You could visually scan for the discrepancy and fix but just highlight them all, re-enter the band name and then all albums are now automatically now the same.

Then you can automatically, in one step, rename all of the file names with the new, proper artist name so they will be fixed as well.

It also allows you to save multiple default file naming creation styles so you can name your files differently for classical, for instance.

It also let me add new tags for things like Composer which also helped me to better organize classical which gets much more complex.

Thanks, Murph! I had already identified MP3tag as "the bomb". I was trying to find something similar under Ubuntu, but I've kind of resigned myself to the idea that I can't do that kind of data management remotely, at least on the wimpy little Atom I'm using. Back to Windows I go.

Still trying to decide whether to get my son a laptop (because he's in high school) or a desktop (because he likes Flight Simulator) so that I can reclaim his current desktop for my Vortex Box. I need to wait after I buy some more tires, I think.

My SB Touch is supposed to arrive tomorrow. I'll report back "later" when I need help get stuff connected.

Okay, well, as promised, here is my update.

I installed the SB Touch (wired ethernet). No problem. Very intuitive.

I installed SB server on the same PC that contains the FLAC files. Still having trouble getting it to run as a service on boot rather than on login, but I haven't tried "everything" yet.

Sound quality is very good; I think better than a coaxial digital connection from the same PC to the digital input of my receiver. Also better than the D/A converter in the PC or several other computer-to-receiver cabling solutions I've tried. No, I didn't A/B it and I will not. Yes, I could be imagining it. Sounds "good" anyway; not imagining that part.

The iPad SB app is just what I had in mind. That seems to work really great.

Still need to fix some tagging. Also - and more importantly - I need to create some more playlists so that I have other options besides artist/album at ready disposal.

Yeah, looking like "The Answer" so far. Thanks very much, guys.

Glad to hear it's mostly going well. If I end up with one, it'll be down the road when I have nice speakers in my bathroom or bedroom, since I'll still be using my PC to play stuff on my main system, I think.

I emailed Dolby and told them they should sell ProLogic IIx/z plugins for the popular media players (at least MediaMonkey, since it's what I use, and it seems most people here like it, too). That way the player could handle the matrixing of the audio instead of me having to change the audio settings on my computer to 2-channel so my receiver can then employ PLIIx, then switch my computer settings again when I'm done with the music. It's just a hassle, a shortcoming of using my computer for music on my main system. Here's hoping they think it's a great idea. Ha ha.

Brilliant, Charles.

I'm glad the SB install and the iPad SB app is what you were looking for Tom. Did you go with the iPeng app or the SqueezePad app?

That was a great buy on the Touch!

Rick, I haven't even tried iPeng. I really don't see any deficiencies in the SB app.

I HAVE TO solve that server problem, though.

Oh yea, I completely forgot about the Logitech SB app Tom. I'm not quite sure it was out whenever I set our SB up, seems like it may have came out after I already downloaded the SqueezePad app.

Good luck on the server issue, sure wish I could help you there but I'm not that smart!

Oh, I can find a solution... Just trying to find the FREE one for now. I'm not a network guy.

Tom, I just leave my PC on 24x7. I didn't bother getting a dedicated network data storage device. The PC goes into sleep mode to save some power $ but when I hit the power on my Squeezebox the 'Wake-on'Lan' feature wakes up my PC. It only adds a few seconds to the experience to get the music started. Adding a second hard drive (when it got to the point I needed it) to make room for media was a lot cheaper than a dedicated device.

I forget though, maybe you only have a laptop or another reason this might be inconvenient.

Well, I am trying to run it on a desktop computer that is used by both of my kids and that is our file server.

So, it's not so much a power problem as a "who (if anyone) is logged in" problem.

I can hack something together; I might just move the SB Server to my wife's machine and either have it run off the files on that other machine, or run against a backup of them. I just need to draw myself a map regarding the backup scheme and check on the disk capacities.

I could also use my Ubuntu box and an external hard drive, but I was concerned about performance in that scenario.

What I WANT to do is get my son something else and turn his old socket 939 computer (in a gorgeous Silverstone case) into a vortexbox. But that would cost me a replacement computer, whereas the other scenarios are basically free.

I think these little plug in servers are pretty cool, but I don't need one. Here's another

The SB server can be set up as a 'process' so that it starts as soon as the PC boots up and runs regardless of who logs in our out. The trick is that you have to assign it a username and password that has "Admin" rights on the system. In my case, I simply assigned it my own user name and password.

However, depending what your kids do and how powerful the PC is, overtaxing the PC could effect the constant signal but the buffering it does should defeat that except for extreme circumstances. My PC was a home built, overkill project 4 years ago but it is now weak by modern standards and I can do anything including intensive 3-D gaming and my music flows just fine with nothing missed or jittered.

Still, I get your desire for a dedicated device. Whoever dies with the most toys, Wins!!!

If you need help setting up SB server as a process, let me know. In fact, I bet you still have my cell number from the sheet of numbers from the Axiom gathering.