Surge suppressors.

Posted by: dakkon

Surge suppressors. - 01/18/12 10:27 PM

I was wondering what kinds of units you guys have your equipment plugged into.

Right now i am using a no-name product... When i was in the Navy, we would use 500$ 12outlet surge suppressors. I am NOT willing to spend that much cash on a surge supressor..
I have always though that tripp lite was one of the best brands.. Does anyone here have one?
http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ISOBAR8...3449&sr=8-1

I also came across this one, with a built in watt/amp/voltage meter.
http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P...3470&sr=8-7
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/18/12 10:53 PM

Plugged straight into the wall, Alex.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/18/12 10:56 PM

APC Smart-UPS here.
Posted by: dakkon

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/18/12 11:07 PM

John, do you have one of the "whole house" surge suppressors that go into the breaker pannel?

If you don't.. wouldn't you view as that being a little risky?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/18/12 11:36 PM

No, and little enough not to worry about.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 12:13 AM

I use an APC xps1500 or something. I think I got it for $140 on sale. It has a built in battery back up which used to run my tv, network adapter, and Xbox so I wouldn't lose my game if the power surged or went out. My new tv is a plasma and I think it uses more power than my old one, especially on startup, so I have plugged in to the surge only outlet on my APC.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 12:39 AM

I use a Belkin PF60 for my HT.
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 01:36 AM

I have a Panamax M5400-PM for my system.
Posted by: alan

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 07:54 AM

dakkon,

Unless you are out in the boonies, with frequent power outages, brownouts and the like, there is no requirement for using these devices (as JohnK pointed out). If you want the psychological reassurance that your equipment is better "protected" by using one, I suppose there's no harm.

Regards,
Alan
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 07:55 AM

I'm using a Monster surge protector/power conditioner. I've planned on installing a whole house surge protector, but never got arount to it yet.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 08:28 AM

Originally Posted By: dakkon
I was wondering what kinds of units you guys have your equipment plugged into.

Right now i am using a no-name product... When i was in the Navy, we would use 500$ 12outlet surge suppressors. I am NOT willing to spend that much cash on a surge supressor..
I have always though that tripp lite was one of the best brands.. Does anyone here have one?
http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-ISOBAR8...3449&sr=8-1

I also came across this one, with a built in watt/amp/voltage meter.
http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P...3470&sr=8-7


Get an electrician to install a whole house surge suppressor, right at the panel. That's the way to go! Then I just use basic electrical strips or protection strips at the equipment to hook up multiple devices from the outlets.
Posted by: Cork

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 09:29 AM

I don't think it's just the boonies that has to worry about surge surpressors and brownouts. I'm in a large surburban area and we get reasonably frequent power fluctuations; especially in the summer. I always understood that quick power drops were just as potentially harmful to electronic equipments and small spikes. (This opinion is based on hearsay and 9 EE credits in 1982 ... so not much.)

So what does the industry say, are power dropouts not a concern?

BTW, I have all my major electronic equipment (computer, receivers, large TVs) on APC UPSs. But I didn't do any research to chose APC.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 10:35 AM

Originally Posted By: alan
dakkon,

Unless you are out in the boonies, with frequent power outages, brownouts and the like,


That would be me. Better than it used to be but the Winters can be nasty for power.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 10:36 AM

Originally Posted By: alan
dakkon,

Unless you are out in the boonies, with frequent power outages, brownouts and the like, there is no requirement for using these devices (as JohnK pointed out). If you want the psychological reassurance that your equipment is better "protected" by using one, I suppose there's no harm.

Regards,
Alan


Where I live, a UPS is preferable, but a surge protector is mandatory for electronics. Black outs are not the problem, but under frequency events (aka brown outs). They toast electronic devices. A good UPS will maintain frequency.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 10:53 AM

What you have to worry about with brownouts (low voltage) is that it is potentially harmful to your appliances that are motorized like the air conditioner, fridge, furnace, sump pump ect. Brownouts are not really a concern for damaging your electronic equipment.

People are protecting the wrong stuff.
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 11:11 AM


I can't agree with that. Every industrial facility and power plant I've worked at has a battery of UPS systems for the sole purpose of maintaining a steady power source to electronic devices. We do not provide that level of protection for any of the motors. The motor circuits simply trip out on under frequency, or over current.

In my home, I have spare aquastat relays for my boiler, spare 110>12V transformers, spare 12V zone valve motors, ect. I do because I have to replace them frequently.

If you know something I am not considering, I'd love to hear it.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 11:37 AM

When I was looking into whole house protectors I came across this thread. The data sheets are a bit over my head.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=997265&postcount=14


Posted by: J. B.

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 12:58 PM

where i believe resides the usefulness of spike protectors is against burning up power supplies in electronic equipment. the protector costs much less than having equipment repaired.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 01:38 PM

Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
When I was looking into whole house protectors I came across this thread. The data sheets are a bit over my head.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=997265&postcount=14


And this is why getting "facts" from forums is taken with a grain of salt.
I've replaced power supplies and hard drives first hand that were destroyed because of a quick power outage including one of my own. CRTs that are quick power cycled can blow caps easy (sometimes replaceable, sometimes not). I also know two people who have had their houses hit by lightning. Again rare, but if you can improve the chance of surviving that event for what? a hundred bucks? then why not?

Sure, these events are rare and most electronics do have the capacity to withstand surges, but it doesn't always work as effectively as one expects.

Geez, of all the people who should know by now it's audio folk; things are made much more cheaply these days, cutting every corner on every part. The days of robust 30 year old appliances are gone. I can barely keep some of our 3 year old appliances out of the damn repair shops.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 02:11 PM

Originally Posted By: chesseroo
Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
When I was looking into whole house protectors I came across this thread. The data sheets are a bit over my head.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=997265&postcount=14


And this is why getting "facts" from forums is taken with a grain of salt.
I've replaced power supplies and hard drives first hand that were destroyed because of a quick power outage including one of my own. CRTs that are quick power cycled can blow caps easy (sometimes replaceable, sometimes not). I also know two people who have had their houses hit by lightning. Again rare, but if you can improve the chance of surviving that event for what? a hundred bucks? then why not?

Sure, these events are rare and most electronics do have the capacity to withstand surges, but it doesn't always work as effectively as one expects.

Geez, of all the people who should know by now it's audio folk; things are made much more cheaply these days, cutting every corner on every part. The days of robust 30 year old appliances are gone. I can barely keep some of our 3 year old appliances out of the damn repair shops.



He also claims that a brownout WOULD NOT be responsible for the power supply failure on your computer.

Originally Posted By: tw

What do many recommend for brownout protection? A UPS. What do all laptops contain? A UPS.

Junk science is to observe something. Then make a conclusion from that observation. Many see a brownout. See electronics damage. Then *know* brownouts cause electronics damage. Junk science. Observation without underlying facts and fundamental theory is a classic junk science conclusion.

Brownouts are destructive to motorized appliances - air conditioner, refrigerator, furnace fan motor, etc. But brownouts never cause electronics damage - even those without an internal UPS.

However brownouts can be a symptom of other problems. Those other problems would explain a laptop power supply failure. Electrical anomalies include blackouts, brownouts, harmonics, noise, and surges. Each is unique. Solutions required in different locations. But solutions cannot be implemented without first defining the problem.

Low voltage and blackouts are never destructive to electronics. Otherwise power off also would be destructive. Otherwise the brownout (intentionally created inside some electronics when first powered on) would be destructive. And so the question is, "What caused that damage?" Well, best evidence is always the dead body. An autopsy is informative.

Laptop power supplies (on 120VAC) must operate uninterrupted on any voltage from 90 VAC to 260 VAC. Well beyond what is harmful to other appliances. Voltage variations (ie brownouts) do not explain that damage. In fact, every computer must work just fine even when incandescent bulbs are glowing at less than 40% intensity.

What exactly was damaged when it was located where (ie what was the table top material; what was the floor; where in relation to the breaker box; what other cables; etc)?


http://cellar.org/showthread.php?p=577596#post577596
Posted by: SBrown

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 04:15 PM

We had a tree branch knock the power line off our house and the cheap surge protector I had didn't stop from blowing the TV,stereo and VCR(at the time).
It also grounded out on the carpet and burnt a big hole.I was standing there and seen the flash. Scary

Then I went outside to see what had happened and the power line from the pole almost blew into me. That was a life flasher! eek
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/19/12 10:33 PM

Originally Posted By: SBrown
We had a tree branch knock the power line off our house and the cheap surge protector I had didn't stop from blowing the TV,stereo and VCR(at the time).
It also grounded out on the carpet and burnt a big hole.I was standing there and seen the flash. Scary

Then I went outside to see what had happened and the power line from the pole almost blew into me. That was a life flasher! eek


An electrical line came down from a home down the street a few years ago. The culprit wasn't a branch though. The fire fighters came upon a grow op. The place actually caught fire, burnt to a crisp. The neighbours that were on the same line got their stuff fried from the surge.

That's some scary stuff you experienced SBrown.
Posted by: Nick B

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/20/12 09:43 AM

I am one who likes to plug my gear into a surge suppressor, just to have the extra piece of mind. However, when I purchased my plasma TV a few years ago, I was having some issues with the set. Every now and then and sometimes even several times in a minute I would get a flicker in the picture, where it would quickly have a black screen and then go back on. This was very annoying and distracting. I started looking online and apparently plasma sets are sensitive to fluctuations in the voltage. So I got the APC H15, which is a surge suppressor and voltage regulator in one when they went on sale for about $150. So this unit helps to keep the voltage within a certain tolerance. This almost completely solved the flicker problem on my plasma set. I might notice it flicker once per two months, where it used to be almost a daily problem (and on some days it would flicker so bad that I didn't even want to watch it).
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/20/12 11:28 AM

Your problem could be a poor connection or part that is going out of spec somewhere that is causing the screen to go black and come back on. A bad solder could act intermittently like that. If the UPS is supposed to control the voltage and voltage fluctuations are what's causing it, then shouldn't the flicker stop completely?



Posted by: Nick B

Re: Surge suppressors. - 01/20/12 04:08 PM

I don't think it is a bad solder. I returned the first TV since it was doing this within the 30 day period. The second identical TV acted the exact same way. After that I set up a dedicated outlet with only the TV on a breaker by itself. This did nothing for the problem. The voltage regulator finally fixed the problem. Like I said, the flicker might happen once per month or two. The APC doesn't have a battery inside and so it can only store up power for maybe a split second dip in voltage and still maintain a consistent voltage to the TV. So what I am probably noticing once per month is a slightly longer dip in voltage that the APC cannot keep up with, and I get a flicker. If I spend approximately $1000 to get the APC with battery back up built in I bet it would completely solve the problem. But, the problem that I still notice is so rare that it doesn't even bother me now.