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Posted By: JBG Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 12/23/14 01:54 AM
check it out...

http://usa.denon.com/us/product/bluetooth/avreceiversbt/avrx7200w
Posted By: fredk Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 12/23/14 03:15 AM
Damn that's one pricey receiver. Hmm, no wonder, it's got a 'voice of god' channel. laugh
Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 12/23/14 02:31 PM
Decent seperates can be had near that price. Then in future the power amp stays and preamp/processor gets swapped out as the new formats roll out.

If you are looking at a "one to rule them all" solution, the Denon is definitely one I'd consider too. Seems beefy. Note only 9 amp channels. Feels wierd to say only.

Buying one JBG?
Most people (looking for Atmos anyway) are jumping on the 5200 instead of the 7200, saving the $1000 (MSRP) and getting a 2 channel amp to drive 11 channels. Not saying that the 7200 is bad, just that you get 95% of the features with the 5200 and save some bank.

I think that Onkyo recently announced a receiver with 7.2.4 with all 11 channels powered (instead of 9 powered and 2 unpowered that would require an amp like with the Denon models above).

This is why I am waiting at least another year before jumping in. I am one of those "all in one" kind of guys, and getting a single box (receiver) to run all of my speakers is what I want, and the prices will get a little more reasonable in a year.
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 12/23/14 11:58 PM
other than power the x5200 has al24 vs x7200 al32 bit processing and a few other bells and whistles, the onkyo and itegra has dropped the auddessey room correction and have thier own in house correction that does nothing on the LCR, huge mistake in my view... the clear winner are the denons right now ... best thing is to wait a year or so... meanwhile will be getting the room ht atmos ready... have 4x m3 in-cieling on order
Agreed on the Audyssey. Onkyo dropping it (for now at least) is a mistake in my opinion. I was just mentioning that Onkyo has a 11.2 receiver announced and coming soon that powers all 11 channels. Denon will be doing that with maybe a mid-2015 model yet to be announced, or come 2016 models.

Again, all of the missing pieces here and there are just another good reason to wait if wanting something that does all of the new "stuff." Nevermind DTS-UHD, Auro 3D, HDMI 2.0, etc. All a mixed bag right now, but the Denon 5200 is the sweet spot right now.
Posted By: fredk Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 12/24/14 07:24 PM
I would be curious to know what percentage of the home theater crowd are actually intending to look at more than 5.1 or even 7.1.
I will hold off until a 13.2.4 processor is available.
/Jeff
I am holding out for the 32.8.24 system.
I would love to get 9.2.4, but I know that will be just crazy stupid expensive. I really am not planning too much for speaker layout until DTS gets their stuff announced at CES is a week and a half.
9.2.4 is more realistic for the space I have to work with.
Low ceiling height, rather narrow room. +1 on waiting to see how all of Tech plays out.
Jeff
Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 12/26/14 05:08 AM
Originally Posted By: fredk
I would be curious to know what percentage of the home theater crowd are actually intending to look at more than 5.1 or even 7.1.


Here is a small poll of what the av nuts out there are trending. Many are hardcore enthusiasts mind you. Pretty strong support in either camp, with many holding out for DTS news.

Prewired for 7.2.4 here. Will have to sell organs to buy a new avr though. laugh

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/92-community-news-polls/1811841-have-you-installed-dolby-atmos.html
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 12/26/14 08:52 PM
DTS MDA (Multi Dimensional Audio)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eq76pCirqw#t=41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6IfhQoJ5OI

Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 12/27/14 02:01 AM
Thanks for the links JBG. Both of these vids seem to pertain solely to commercial screening.

The refreshing thing I got out of the panel is they seem to be in agreement, at least commercially, that a format war will not take place. Cinemas are losing ground and added costs in redundant systems are not welcome.

The home cinema may be a whole other story. So far it sounds like DTS object based may play nice other channel based configurations. Again, citing commercial environments. I'm curious if all those jumping for early ATMOS will get a DTS firmware update later. Wouldnt that suck if not!

Come on CES!
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 12/27/14 03:22 AM
My guess is the new DTS format will work with existing atmos speaker setup (.2 or .4 ) in the home theater application.. I also belive that the other formats don't really have a future because of the amount of speakers involved, just makes everthing so complicated and expensive, time will tell.

until then I'll be waiting out on a Denon 11 power amp AVR with the new DTS format before I make a move unless Onkyo reverts back to Audessey room correction
Yeah, we really won't know more about home versions of DTS MDA/UHD until CES, which is just around the corner (January 6-9)...
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 12/31/14 12:04 PM
Here is the latest on the new DTS format.... (DTS-X)

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/D...neer-more/20275
Posted By: brwsaw Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 12/31/14 04:23 PM
Originally Posted By: JBG
Here is the latest on the new DTS format.... (DTS-X)

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/D...neer-more/20275



I'm hoping its 5 lower and 5 upper speakers with the typical 5.1 lower and the top 5 spun 180 degrees. The top level would have a center rear height, all speakers will split the difference between the lower speakers.
I could see this working, 7 of 10 would be in front of the listener.
No?

Edit: should say ideally (IMO) 7 of 10 would be infront of the MLP.
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 01/09/15 06:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAbNEB0W0rc#t=362
Ugh. Audiohaulics... Those videos are always painful to watch (and listen to). Some of the information is good, but so much sounds scripted and badly executed on video.

Gene bashes Atmos at 2:26 in. What a dolt. At CEDIA people were LOVING the speakers, and people with a lot more positive reputation than Gene were really liking it and Gene's doofus side-kick just does a typical laugh and "pleads the 5th" because heaven forbid that the guy has a spine and isn't just Gene's "yes man." When he speaks just "off the cuff" he does much better.

I also love how Gene claims that he "knew everything and people should have listened to him." Well duh, a lot of people are bleeding edge consumers. Without those "idiots" jumping in first, the manufacturers wouldn't have that early adoption to help drive Gen 2+ of products. I guess I am super smart too since I said MONTHS ago that we should wait for Gen 2 and DTS UHD (the name before DTS X). Maybe Gene just listened to ME!!

Again, their videos can be good and enjoyable, but he is such a smart arse that even when people are on the same page as him (for some/most/all of what he is saying) it is still insulting to listen to.
Originally Posted By: brwsaw
Originally Posted By: JBG
Here is the latest on the new DTS format.... (DTS-X)

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/D...neer-more/20275



I'm hoping its 5 lower and 5 upper speakers with the typical 5.1 lower and the top 5 spun 180 degrees. The top level would have a center rear height, all speakers will split the difference between the lower speakers.
I could see this working, 7 of 10 would be in front of the listener.
No?

Edit: should say ideally (IMO) 7 of 10 would be infront of the MLP.


I can't see them "taking away" from people with at least a 7.1 setup, so that would mean 7 ear level and 7 upper level as their "ideal" and that is a LOT of speakers to drive with amps and receivers. Heck, it is painful to look at something that can drive 11 speakers for a 7.1.4 Atmos setup let alone this "hypothetical" 14 speaker 7.1.7 DTS X setup. grin
Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 01/09/15 09:11 PM
I'm trying to think of a solution that wiil take care of the audio and video changes in the short term.

My guess is OPPO will come up with something that will be the most affordable, least headach, do everything solution for those not wanting to, or not affording a complete system makeover. Myself included.

4k with all imersive formats bluray player with analog 65.4 outputs. laugh
Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 01/09/15 09:12 PM
But seriously, when will the DTS:X news drop already. Prod them again Nick! smile

I deleted my account over there or I would. laugh
Originally Posted By: Serenity_Now
But seriously, when will the DTS:X news drop already. Prod them again Nick! smile

I deleted my account over there or I would. laugh


I haven't read this yet, but this was posted today over at AVS. No account required.
Dual DTS:X Demos at CES 2015
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 01/11/15 03:15 PM
Thanks for that info.. guess we will be on the edge or our seats and just have to wait in march for the final word on DTS-X hoping for speaker flexibility so Dolby & DTS-X can work with the same speaker layout, In my opinion that would make more sense and also confirm what I heard in a DTS-MDA video about how it would work in any kind of speaker setup, also if you look at the current amps, denon and onkyo yamaha it make sense and very much in-line with the atmos setup and that it would be a software upgrade only and also I don't think that denon would launch their flagship amp 7200 a few months before DTS-x releases and not being compatible with that format. I could be wrong but it's my 2cents on this...
Posted By: fredk Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 01/11/15 04:32 PM
Readers digest version: Sounds pretty darned good.
Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 01/12/15 11:36 PM
Yeah, ATMOS layout works. Cool beans.
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 02/21/15 04:09 PM
found this intersting dts-x vid on youtube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uulbbswKy6c
Posted By: brwsaw Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 02/21/15 09:06 PM
90% is a good #. Hopefully they keep AVR prices reasonable.
I am more curious on the distribution side to see how it is adopted. The nail in the coffin will be if they try to ultra premium it on the movie side and charge outragous prices for the films with it. Like the premium paid for a 3d film, or worse, how we pay extra to get a Bluray over a DVD.. The media costs to print are identical if not cheeper now for bluray, and movies need to be remastered down res to make DVD yet they still charge less for them. The idea that bluray is premium so they can charge more. If they try to pull that off with ATMOS or DTS-X then I see it going into more fanatical fringe markets.

Lets face it, the movie industry needs to shake up their idea of costing to compete with the likes of Netflix and streaming media. What I think is killing them is the cost. I'd buy a bluray to watch for $5 where I'd rather rip it off if it was costing me $30, or better yet just wait for it to hit Netflix
Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 02/25/15 01:06 AM
The immersive titles are not premium priced. Just bought John Wick. Same price as any other new release bluray (which is still pricey I guess.). I just hope it doesnt take 2-3 years for the formats to trickle up to non mainstream AVRs. Higher end brands are usually slow to adopt new features.... frown
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 03/31/15 10:20 AM
DTS-X moves launch event from march to April 9th

read it here http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/DTS-X-..._medium=twitter
Another move into the ultra niche market. Lets face it, the average consumer is sitting happy with thier DVD player, but most likely getting their movies from a streaming source like netflix, Amazon or Apple.

The higher end consumer has their blu-ray and put together a 5.1 room for watching movies. I think that 7.1 for the most part has been panned, and the number of people who grabbed the 11.2 craze and invested will be the only ones that will likely make the jump.

Lets face it, unless the studio's take a force it move like they did with VHS, the masses will not take it up.
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 03/31/15 11:26 AM
I remember thats what they said when 7.1 came out, I think that if dolby & Dts came out with this new ceiling codec and all the major avr & speaker & movie theater have something comming out this,it's not just a fad rather it will be here to stay and become the new norm in home theaters, time will tell but I'm already onboard.
Not saying that the studio's aren't going to try and ram it down the general public's throat. It will be more like 3D movies. I won't go to see them and would rather see it in 2d.

How many here went out and bought a 3D TV just because they said it was going to be the next big thing and it will stay with us? Don't seem to see every TV on the market now being 3D? Heck, how many of the newer 4D TV's are 3d??

And a TV is an easy piece to upgrade in your home. Now as soon as you start to tell people that they need to put holes in the ceiling and fish new speaker wires to them ForGetAboutIt! You say that you just put in up firing speakers.. Ever heard of WAF? In the main family room, we have to put up with small micro energy speakers to get 5.0 (can't have a sub because it doesn't go with the decore). Why do you think I had to dig in my heals and DEMAND my own home theatre room with massive speakers that actually sound good.

DTS X / Atmos is extreem fringe at best to the diehards that are willing to follow. And the media studio companies are falling over themselves to try and convince the rest that you need to stay current as they are loosing relevance for the average consumer.
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 03/31/15 02:20 PM
Matt You know in the consumer electronics there will always be a new thing or new tech , just like cars every year there is a new model with small changes, I can remember when there was dolby 2.0 and when dobly 5.1 came out everyone was saying 5 speakers and a sub ..just nuts. I also remember having a dvd player when the tech just came out and paying 1000$ for it , at block buster they only had 5 to 10 dvd rental titles and the guy saying this was only a fad also.. well guess what.. no more block busters. That being said yes I do have 3d projector and my tv sat company has 3d movies a few times a month… although I do belive this tech will pickup steam (my opinion) also I have the (4) M3-inceilings
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 03/31/15 02:32 PM
I was lucky to have a WAF of 150% actually she wants more stuff in our HT decicated room.. I actually had to have her slow down a wee bit...
If you want to look at historically, the move over to DVD was really a forced issue as the studio's stopped making VHS tapes. The kicker to it was that a VHS took far more money to make than a DVD but still sold in the stores for generally 1/2 the price or less of the exact same movie in DVD.

The same seems to be holding true for BluRay vs DVD. They are identical in cost to manufacture, but the studio's still mark them as a premium product and justify the extra cost as such.

Average joe on the street neighbour will own a blu-ray player and has pretty much been forced to buy a new HD TV as they just don't sell anything but, but will still rent a DVD or buy them as they cost less. The industry could kill DVD if they simply brought the price of bluray down to par in cost.

I have many neighbours that are well to do. All of them have their Media Room but not one of them have a grade system installed. They all have a 60+" TV or video projector. But at most 5.1 These are bank executives, lawfirm partners, CFO's. The only neighbour on the street with a decent system (2channel stereo) is the Postal Delivery man. He has spend obsene amounts of money and totally enjoys his setup. He is fringe.

Don't get me wrong. The studio's will always come out with something new to reinvent themselves and make thems a new standard, but for the masses, unless they pull the plug and force like they did with VHS and HD tv's the average person won't change.
Wow, someone is feeling a bit grumpy today...

I don't think that anyone is ramming anything down peoples' throats since VHS. There was more to it though. DVDs were better quality, easier and cheaper to make, didn't degrade (like magnetic tape does) over time, didn't have to be rewound, can jump to spots/chapters in a movie, supported better audio options, etc. It was a LOT better for everyone, so it made sense that VHS went away.

As for the object based audio, it is something that really *can* add to the experience, and you don't need to wear any funky gear like glasses for 3D. It actually improves the audio quality, vs 3D that can cause dimmed images, less smooth motion, etc.

Will everyone jump on object based audio? No. They are happy with their HTIB, but for people that like movies, it is a really nice step up.
Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 03/31/15 09:41 PM
Just so everyone is aware, all new bluray audio sountracks will eventually go to immersive by default (new smpte and broadcast standards also being hammered out now, and include immersive audio ie. TV shows) Also be aware that these tracks are backwards compatible and "fold down" to a standard channel based setup if an immersive setup is not enabled. smile Nothing is being rammed anywhere. laugh

The new DTS maxed layout was leaked at avs by a builder. Adding 2/4 inceilings is nothing compared to what is possible with a maxed layout. grin

Matt, enjoy your new preamp, but dont be sour grapes on everyone who decides immersive is for them. smile Your legacy setup will sound amazing when you are done. You will always have the option to adopt later if you want to. But will never have to. Like you said, immersive is a little bit fringe, but will become mainstay once the soundtrack default is DTS:X. Immersive HTIBs are just around the corner.
Originally Posted By: Serenity_Now


Matt, enjoy your new preamp, but dont be sour grapes on everyone who decides immersive is for them. smile Your legacy setup will sound amazing when you are done. You will always have the option to adopt later if you want to. But will never have to. Like you said, immersive is a little bit fringe, but will become mainstay once the soundtrack default is DTS:X. Immersive HTIBs are just around the corner.


I am not being sour grapes, or getting down or jealous or anything with those who want to embrace this new technology. I fully support their decision to move in that direction and wish them full heartedly in their endeavour.

All I was saying was that Unless there is a cutoff of the old technology and this new standard is forced onto the masses (like they did with VHS & OTA HDTV) then it will be a niche market that only a few adopters will embrace.

Yes, as the general mass goes out any buys a new receiver from Bestbuy (as Futureshop is now gone) they will get a unit that supports this immersive sound, and it will go out to their two speakers or for the more adventurous, 5.1 speakers and they will see no benefit what so ever.

That does not mean that those who have gotten more speakers or went ahead and installed speakers in the ceiling, or have run a 35.4 speaker setup are going to loose out. They gain the benefit of having taken advantage of what was given to them. Kudo's to them.

I am just saying that the General Public will not. And as a result, I am left to wonder if there will be enough money generated to pay for the added expense of R&D to continue to develop these new idea's or keep supporting what is out there. If customers keep buying DVD's and not Blu-Ray then will the studio's keep paying the extra money to produce two different product skews, or will one of them simply be dropped? if so, which one?
Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 04/01/15 10:16 PM
I think the general public will by default, but wont always know it or benefit. Heres why.

I think the new immersive mixes for theaters, and subsequently home users, will actually result in less overhead for the industry. One mixed soundtrack for commercial and home releases (instead of at least 3 now.) It would make sense, since everything is all about streamlining and economics these days.

There has been talk in a few podcasts of setting a single audio workflow and format spec that will be happy across all playback platforms. 2/2.1/3.1/5.1/7.1 This is offered by ATMOS already. Immersive is a magic bullet format, and that is why SMPTE and boadcasters are setting it up for the new standard. If DTS takes over the broadcast monopoly, dolby will just have the theater stranglehold (but just in North America.) DTS:X sounds like it is completely agnostic to placement and numbers of channels. I hope this is true.

It doesnt matter if there is mass market adoption or implementation. The formats fold down and support all playback scenarios. Once the workflow of post production houses is updated (and it would appear the major studios are already getting onboard) immersive is here to stay. It is not the same as 3D vs 2D as there is no choice to make between 2 products. All users are supported, and premium users get a premium experience.

You do not need an immersive decoder to play back a immersive track in a legacy system. You just dont get immersive. I watched John Wick on my TV with dolby ATMOS track selected. No big deal. The BD player automatically downmixed. Worked fine.

Cant wait for the DTS:X launch. Come on April 9!
Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 04/02/15 10:27 PM
Just finished watching the live recording of this weeks hometheatergeeks podcast. Next thursday the show will be live on location at the DTS:X launch event with all the news info we've been waiting for and contributions from DTS staff. If you cant make it live, the show is usually up on youtube by Friday afternoon at the youtube channel hometheatergeeks, and posts at AVS on the front page on Sunday evenings.

It will be episode #251 for those who want to search it out.

Cheers.
Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 04/10/15 12:46 AM
DTS:X officially announced today. A handful of ATMOS AVRS will be firmware upgrade ready by the summer, of note the denon 7200. Very few though. Sounds like almost all users will have to wait until the next model year to get DTS:X in mainstream AVRs. Sounds like it is also fully scalable and backwards compatible. Most importantly, it works with an existing 7.1 layout!!

Nick comes off the top rope with a "called that one!" laugh Seriously, if you are in the lot who already purchased an ATMOS AVR I'd sell it now before the summer rollout and mass adoption in stores. (If you care about resale/immersive support.) Missed the podcast live today. Will have to catch the edited version this weekend.

DTS:X seems to also be targeting the single production workflow model. One mix for all users. This is a very good thing. Finally, the cimema mix in our homes!! I wouldnt at all be surprised if there is a deal with some major US sports television looming like Nascar or NFL. Thats how HD got its big launch. These guys are smart, and no doubt gunning for the new broadcast standard designation....
Posted By: JBG Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 04/11/15 08:44 PM
thanks for that update, I found some FAQ's from DTS on DTS-X, here is the link;

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/321lqz/im_the_senior_program_director_for_dtsx_the/

and the ht-geeks 251 link here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=broB2J6kx7c
Posted By: AAAA Re: Right here Right now ... new Denon HT amp - 04/20/15 10:44 PM
New oldish news. DTS has withdrawn from the application to be the new broadcast audio format. Now Dolby and MPH are the contenders. DTS will focus on premium cable shows (like HBO) and re-entering the cinema marketplace.
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