For the M80 and VP150 would you suggest using 12ga or 16ga speaker wire? I've heard a lot of mixed information on this topic, and would like to know if investing in thicker wire for 6 foot (max) lengths would make that much of a difference in performance.

Thanks.
-Brad

Since you're only concerned with the "thickness" of the wire and not the brand, I'll presume that you don't believe in brands.

Given your requirement of the run at 6 ft, either 16ga or 12ga should do. However, the price difference of the two isn't that great, I'll suggest to go with 12 ga. Check out Ultralink Challenger 12 ga. This is a Canadian company and if you're nice to the dealer, you could get them for about $1/ft.

Regards,
HT_Man

My only concern is that I have tried the Original Monster Cable in the past, 12ga, and it really muddied the midrange, added more base, but the mids and highs suffered. I tried the Monster XP 16ga cables as well, and they were better, but still seemed a bit flat. I am considering the Acoustic Research 12ga cables that they have at Lowe's for .88 ft. I've read some reviews online that gave it pretty good marks- better than Monster cable. I figured if I go with the 12ga cables, I'd use the gold banana plugs for connection.
Would you also suggest using 12ga for the center speaker too?
Thanks for you help.

Have you people not heard the wisdom of Alan????He says cables do not make a difference, and in quadruple blind listening test, nobody can tell the difference!

He used to write for a magazine you know.......but now sells speakers!

For the money, the AR 12 ga would be a very good choice.

Go with 12 ga for your VP150 as well. I have similar set-up (M60ti, VP150, M40ti and VP100, 6.1 config) and use AudioQuest Slate for the front 3 and Audio Research 8 ga (for 3 X 35 ft run, could not afford anything more expensive) and they sould great as a HT system.

Regards,
HT_Man

Thanks for the info. So the VP150's sound good with the M60's? Right now I have Polk audio R10's fronts and surrounds along with the CS175i for center. I'm sure with the Axiom's I'll notice a huge improvement with my Denon rcvr.
I was a bit concerned about the fact that the M80's are 4ohm rated, but my rcvr is 6-8ohms. Does having speakers with ohm rating differences and efficiency differences cause any problems for receivers or in sound quality?

I really appreciate your help in answering my questions.

I have read what Alan wrote about speaker wires. I do agree that if your wires cost, say, 1/3 or more as your speakers, than you may as well buy better speakers.

However, I also trust my ears that the speakers, when hooked up with decent wires, sound better than with no-name copper wire. This is my personla experience.

I would say that if one can't tell the difference, then please go with the cheapest wire possible.

Regards,
HT_Man

My receiver is Onkyo 797. According to the set-up manual, you should choose the impedence to match the lowest rating of your speakers. I believe the VP150 is rated at 6 ohm and that's what I chose to set-up my 797.

Unless you really like M80ti because you want to play them LOUD most of the time, you may be better off to go with M60ti. I don't know what model your Denon is (1802, 2802 or 3802?) but it is safer to avoid 4 ohm speakers although I have read that the 2802 and 3802 would have no problems pushing 4 ohm speakers.

Regards,
HT_Man

Thanks. I may upgrade the wiring down the road, but I think for now the AR 12ga cables will work... anything as long as they're not Monster cables!

As for my other question... about the fact that the M80's are 4ohm rated, but my rcvr is 6-8ohms. Does having speakers with ohm rating differences and efficiency differences cause any problems for receivers or in sound quality?

Thanks.

Boy, we seem to be responding at the same time! Thanks for your help. Mine is the 1802 (80W) model. All three manuals mention that they have a protector circuit that may be activated if speakers below 4ohms are used... which tells me that Denon doesn't think 4ohms would be a problem. I have heard mention by Ian on a few posts that the M80's are so efficient, that the 4ohm rating really doesn't effect "most" receivers. That was one reason I was considering the M80's.
I really appreciate your help. You're making it easier to make a decision.

Bradley, the only factor of significance here would be that the resistance of the the speaker wire should be no more than 5% of the lowest impedance of your speakers. For 4 ohm speakers and a 6 foot run, 20 ga would be sufficient. 16 ga lamp cord would be ample for your purposes and would allow you to have money to spend on something of audible significance.

anonymous

my denon 1602 does play 4 ohm speakers (i have done it with my dads' old speakers), and so yes the 1802 will play 4 ohm speakers.

I don't think it is true that wire does not make a difference. If you use el cheapo crap that costs 5 cents a foot there will be noise and signal loss. good wires will make a difference. I think what Alan meant is that you shouldn't spend a ridiculous amount of money on speaker wire, because at a certain point they stop making a difference. I'll never buy 25,000$ pure gold cables, that's for sure, and I think Alan will do the same!

I agree that cables do make a difference, and can have differing impact on sound reproduction. But as you have stated, there is, and should be a limit to your enthusasim in this arena.

While it is easy for manufacturers of other pieces (amps for example) to discuss the design principles of their work and logically defend and agree, cable designers are many times not as placated. It has been said that there is an air of "huckster" surrounding the cable business, and in some cases rightfully so. I have a couple of systems, one midfi, and one hifi. I have moved the cables between the two, and can hear an audbile difference. But I would be hard pressed to explain in a technical fashion why there is a difference . As an engineer, this is most frustrating too....

I have searched the web for some affordable speaker cables. While I haven't tried any yet, here are the best prices and web-sites I've found for what I would consider to be "good" cables:

DIY - 12 gauge (spades or plugs) 8 ft pair $40
Straight Wire Rhythm 8 ft pair $48 (spade) www.audioadvisor.com
AudioQuest Type 4 8 ft pair $70 (spade) www.audioadvisor.com
Kimber Kable 4PR 8 ft pair $70 (spade) www.audioadvisor.com
Straight Wire Stage 8 ft pair $84 (spade) www.audioadvisor.com
T-14 Silver Sonic 8 ft pair $90 (spade) www.anchoraud.com/default.htm
T-14 Silver Sonic 8 ft pair $95 (spade) www.audioc.com
T-14 Silver Sonic 8 ft pair $105 (banana) www.audioc.com
AudioQuest Type 4 8 ft pair $90 (banana) www.audioadvisor.com