Hello'
I've been going crazy. Is it possible to get speakers with no finish? Just the naked wood?
This may sound dumb to some folks but I want speakers that look good as in furniture quality. Veneer is very cheap and I am very handy and experienced in wood working.
I'm by no means inferring that the axioms don't look good. But, I've owned my fair share of speakers in my day and am looking to make my next purchase something I will keep for a long time. So since axioms are ordered exclusively from the manufacturer I thought I'd ask if this was possible.
Thanks in advance
leaf
Give 'em a call! But as I recall from the manufacturing process that Chess described, the vinyl is pretty integral in how they assemble the speakers.
Leaf, they start with a flat sheet of wood with the vinyl already bonded to one side, and then cut from there.
I am not sure if they order the wood with the vinyl already applied, or if they apply it in-house. Like Ken said - give them a call.
Worst case I guess you could just veneer over the vinyl with a bit of judicious glue selection.
I seriously doubt the no-vinyl option. The way the speakers are made, the vinyl is the only thing that holds the different sides together before the speaker is "folded" together.
Still, it can't hurt to ask.
Hey Leaf.
Like the others I doubt that you'll beable to get unfinished units.
However, I recently got some samples of the standard finishes and after looking at one of them I noticed the vinyl was lifted on one edge. Like the little kid in me I just had to pull on it. Just a little tug and the vinyl peeled off very easily. The vinyl is very tough and doesn't seem to stretch or rip and came off in one complete piece. Its actually quite thick and I'd say in my limited experience a quality finish. After this I realized that should any of the finish lift off on an edge of one of my speakers I would want to glue it back down right away. The MDF underneath was actually very smooth and would require only a little sanding prior to applying a veneer. So, if you really wanted I think it would be quite resonable to remove the vinyl and apply a wood veneer.
My recommendation would be to first check and see if they can give you unfinished speakers. If not then request a sample of one of the standard finishes and check it out as I've described.
I'd be very interested on how it goes if decide to go that route. We would all love to see pics of the finished product...
Cheers, Jag
I was talking to some buddies of mine tonite and thinking about the manufacturing process. We figured for the most economical process the vinyl has to be applied first. So getting naked cabs isn't an option though I emailed and asked about it.
My next question to axiom has to be which is the thinest skin they apply? Our group consists of an architect/designer, carpenter, woodworker and myself. There are products to use over the vinyl and some pretty neat inlaid ideas we are floating around. But it would be much easier to just apply to wood.
The carpenter just wants to take them apart..measure the dimenssions and build our own ..I nixed that idea.
I've got everyone thinking about making the axioms look and feel as good as they sound. Sort of picture an axiom with a african rosewood veneer and a few strips of ebony inlaid for contrast. The designer hasn't really had time to think about it but I cautioned simple is better..we'll see what he comes up with.
If this works as a possibility I'll keep you guys informed.
Leaf
Yeah, I wouldn't want to build new cabinets for them, but a nice veneer would rock... You could probably set up a cottage industry refurbing people's speakers!
In reply to:
If this works as a possibility I'll keep you guys informed.
Cool...
You sound more experienced than me but I wonder how good it would be to apply a venner over top of the vinyl? I'd think about it a bit...
Another thing I wonder about is the fittings for the grills in the cabinets themselves. I may be difficult to neatly remove the vinyl and neatly apply a vennear without removing these kinds of things first.
Good Luck!
Jag
Good point. You'd have to make sure that everything fit back in properly. Even if you weren't going to put the grills back on, this could be a bit of a pain.
Back in the "young and stupid" days one of my friends was veneering a set of big-ass ported speakers and forgot to cut out the veneer over one of the ports. He was building the speakers for a friend who never took the grills off and so never knew that he had 2 speakers but only one port.
The veneer made a wierd kazoo noise when the volume was cranked. Eventually the veneer cracked and the kazoo sound got really bad, so the speakers came back and the problem was discovered.
What about removing the drivers and using a heat gun to strip the vinyl first?
I've done it with a pair of those "Doo It Yerself" Sauder furniture bookcases to make a shelving unit deep enough for my HK Carousel.
Bren R.
Leaf - click on the link below. About half way down, you will see a picture of a speaker fully cut, but unassembled. In the fore ground, it is "vinyl side down". On the table, it is "vinyl side up".
As you can see, the "V" grooves are cut, then the whole thing is folded to form the cabinet.
Now here is a simple test: In the picture, there are 2 different speakers in the foreground waiting for assembly. Which models are they?
Axiom Tour 2004
with axiom adding the newer line of subs and getting up there a little in price,id be willing to bet my m80s that they are working on some nice wood finishes
It may be more expensive and I'm not even sure if Axiom whould do it but what it you asked them to send you the naked cabnets, broken down, you then apply your work to them, ship them back to Axiom for assembly. I would bet that you would have to sign all the paperwork telling them it is ok if sonic is off because of your alterations.
I think the way they assemble them with the vinyl preattached is one of the reasons axioms are so reasonably priced. Also adds to if not the reason the fit and finish is so complimented on.
As far as the veneer coming loose thats just a matter of proper application and using the right adhesive. Along with alot of patience. A big concern for me would be changing the characteristics of the cabinet so getting a naked cabnet is almost manditory.
Theirs also the voided warranty to consider..gulp.
We've got some pretty neat ideas flyin around like real wood on top and bottom to avoid a nasty seam and maybe a real wood face plate.
This is probrably a bad idea so I'm not getting my hopes up. The more I think about it the harder it seems to do since I suspect all the figures are glued on post vinyl. Especially the ports and the fittings for the grille. I don't have an axiom yet so can anyone let me know about that. Are the figures glued in or held by pressure?
As far as removing the vinyl...I suspect that as it's been said that the vinyl actually helps hold the unit together. It would be great if the vinyl could be removed without tearing or stretching it though...ie a built in template.
Leaf
oh real thats a vp 150 and an m80
Oh, is that what that one is?! I knew it was the M80, but I thought that the other one was a screwed up M60 missing a port. Dur.
Has Axiom said anything about it yet?
Naw it's the weekend so I don't expect an answer till later this week. Yeah the one on the left had me stumped for a bit too.
At one point Axiom offered a Reference lineup, with the AX lineup - but before the ASW shaped AX lineup cabinets.
I have a pair of AX3's that are real wood. As good as the vinyl (I remember calling this Mac Tac in the 1970's!!!), real wood is much better. Of course, it is not a factor in the sound quality - although Totem I believe veneers inside and outside of all cabinets (or they once did) believing the cabinets would change - it certainly would change pricing.
Brent sent me an email.
"We do not have the speaker enclosures available without a vinyl adhered to the
product."
Asked if it's possible to remove the vinyl.
Wait and see I guess.
Leaf
Vinyl is laminated on so can't really be removed.
Oh well gonna order some M50's and see if it's even possible.
You should be able to use a heat gun to remove it. I had to remove this stuff and it’s not easy. Then use acetone or some other toxic crap to remove the leftover glue residue.
Hey Leaf, SERIOUSLY consider getting yourself a few free samples of the standard finishes sent to and you'll see just how easy it is to peel the vinyl off. This doesn't mean the vinyl is poorly bonded on the speakers, but if you get the vinyl lifted along one of the edges then it does become quite an easy task to peel the vinyl off. This is why I mentioned that if I noticed the vinyl lifting off along an edge I'd be quick to glue it back down. Once the vinyl is off you are left with an almost smooth finish, just a very little roughness from the bonding agent. I got samples of all three standard finishes and I peeled the vinyl off on two of them with the exact same results.
I think it would be a bit more difficult to peel the vinyl off on a speaker that has a larger surface area but I think the results with the sample would suggest it is a reasonable task given a bit of patience and effort.
My concern with the re-finishing thing is how the speaker fittings ( grill post holes, ports ect...) are secured to the cabinet. If they are glued then it may be quite difficult to remove them, which I think would be a neccessity inorder to do a proper job.
Another possibility mentioned is the release of real wood veneer editions. I think this would be a far more likely thing for Axiom to do as an Anniversary release as opposed to completely new models as some have speculated. Why not ask Axiom if they are planning some special Anniversary Veneers. It may well be worth the wait if its that important to you.
Also don't forget that on all accounts the vinyl veeners are reported to look way better in real life than what is shown on Axiom web pages. There are also alot of beautiful custom veneers to choose from.
Unfortunately, to a large extent you'll never know how well re-veneering will work without giving it a try.
Anyone want to volunteer a speaker...
Cheers, Jag
Jag,
I went ahead and ordered some M50ti's today. They are the speakers I wanted regaurdless of finish. Ordered b-stock only a 2 week wait. My biggest concern at this point would be the fittings being glued in. If they are I'll just decide to keep em or return em on sound quality. Who knows I may just love the way they look.
Now I'm gonna loose my mind waiting for them to arrive.
Leaf
In reply to:
Now I'm gonna loose my mind waiting for them to arrive.
I hear ya. I ordered mine in Boston Cheery from B-Stock.
12 week wait for some...
Jag
Just out of curiosity... Why did you chose the M50s instead of (for example) the M60s? I've not seen many people chose M3, M40, or M50 because most people seem to chose the M2, M22, M60, and M80 sound. I just ask because sometimes with the M2i's I had before, they seemed a bit bright with badly recorded music (although the M60s seem a bit more tame comparatively). When I purchased my M60s, I was wavering between them and the M50s because I felt that maybe a bit of added warmth would be a good thing. That being said, I am incredibly happy with the M60s, and i wish you the same with the 50s!
DJ,
To be honest it was 558 versus 720 from B-stock. That and I've been listening to alot of speakers with these 2 configurations. Whenever I compared them I always liked the sound of the 2 woofer one tweeter combo more than the ones with the added midrange.
On top of that if I end up trying to get the vinyl off the 558 won't hurt as much. :0
Leaf
Ahh - I definitely see where you're coming from now with regards to the speaker selection - heh. In fact, I think I have convinced one of my friends to go for some M50s eventually, and that will let me decide if I made the "right" decision for my type of music or not.
I'm in awe that you have the patience to do B-Stock though... I was going to do it, but then the wait time for Mansfield Beech is incredibly long, so I went A-Stock. I am also really anal about my electronics being in perfect condition, and even though most B-Stock Axioms are just fine cosmetically, I'd be afriad to take the chance for 80 dollars difference.