Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Samsung 50"DLP

Hey does anybody have a HL-S5088W or HL-S5087W? I'm in the market for a new television and i've been looking at these two. Can anybody explain the purpose of the RS232C Control?

on the 5088 it says the color wheel is 14,400 RPM and on the 5087 is says the color wheel is 55mm/5 segment are these different? The 5087 has less features which in don't mind, I just don't want the video quailty to be less. So if anyone has researched these before or if they know what some of this stuff means that would be great!

Or if there is another TV I should consider that would be comparable to these. Thanks for you help.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

In theory, the faster the color wheel and the more segments it has, the less visible will be the "rainbow effects" that are a potential side effect of DLP front and rear-projection units.

However, I've found little correlation of visible rainbow effects with the stated color wheel rpm and number of segments.

Only a tiny percentage of viewers are susceptible to seeing rainbow effects (brief flashes of rainbow-like colors sometimes visible in night scenes with bright lights in the image). Do you see any rainbow effects with either set, or with other DLP sets?

Because I test stuff and write about it, I taught myself to see rainbow effects and I'm not going to tell you how to do it because then you might look for them and find them annoying. None of my friends or family have ever complained or noticed rainbow effects with my 50-inch Samsung, nor has anyone at Axiom's plant noticed them using various DLP projectors.

If you don't see them, don't worry about the color wheel specs. The only DLP sets that do not produce rainbow effects are the new Samsung set that uses three separate red, green and blue LED light sources instead of a single projector bulb, and very expensive three-chip DLP projectors.

The RS-232 connection is used for some whole-house computer control and universal control systems, if memory serves. Other board members can correct me if I'm wrong on that.

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nor has anyone at Axiom's plant noticed them using various DLP projectors

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You know, i don't recall seeing any 'screening room' at the plant.
Is this a new addition? Right next to the coffee room or anechoic chamber perhaps?
Must be next to the coffee room since the bass from movies could interfere with the chamber testing.
Yep, that must be it.

Thanks for the info on the rainbow effects Alan. I did some research and found out that both sets I mentioned have the same speed wheel.

I went to Best Buy to look at the samsung and to be honest I was that impressed. I saw a lot of artifacts, it just didn't look that sharp. It was right next to a Sony KDS-R50XBR1. The Sony looked quite a bit better. Artifacts were not near as much noticable, and the color was much more accurate compared to the samsung.

Has anyone else compared the Sony's to any other sets, because I didn't see any other screens that compared. The Sony is only $600 more than the Samsung, but image quality is well worth the added cost. I was just curious if anyone else has the same opinions, because all I ever read on most forums is nothing but praise for the Samsungs.

Andrew, my view is similar to yours. If you're going to get a rear projection set, the 50" and 60" Sony XBRs are the way to go if your budget will accomodate them.

I had two different Samsung DLP the first was the pedistal model the next was the 60" with the updated color wheel. I gave up on DLP due to a strange defect in how they porject DVDs. It's seem when there is a lower grade signal (other than HD) in low lit secenes faces can take on a weird almost "plastic" or chalk drawing look. The subtle shades which show contour in skin aren't produced. I saw this with 3 different DVD players, Denon, Sony and a Samsung player.
I decided to go with the Sony SXRD 50" and found the picture incredible. DVDs look near HD quality (depending on the DVD.) The color spectrum is higher too, as well as the contrast shades from white to black. The picture with the SXRD is the closest I've ever seen to "tube" quality without the fear of burn in and other issues which that come with plasma.
If you're planning to view mostly HD TV I don't think having a DLP will show any signs or problems, however, if DVDs are on your schedule I would suggest the SXRD.

I'm surprised to hear someone didn't like the new HL-S5087W by Samsung. I've seen it at a local Circuit City, displaying some 1080p HD source, and it was absolutely AWESOME!! Make sure that you know what the display units are displaying. Perhaps it wasn't the full 1080p, but only (!) 720, or even worse, EDTV or SDTV.... Verify the sourse that the unit is actually displaying.

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Verify the sourse that the unit is actually displaying

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VikingShips... I originally thought the same that maybe the Sony had a different video source. However, I don't know if the samsung was 1080p (i'll go back tomorrow to check), but the sony was side by side w/the samunsung, and both were outputing the same signal (HD) and there really wasn't a comparision at all in my opinion. I went to best buy after I left Circuit City, and they had the 60" and 61" sony/samsung side by side and they image was definitely much much better on the Sony.

I was quite surprised when I came home to do research online to see what other people thought and I virtually didn't see anyone talking about the sony's. Everyone was praising the Samsungs, I just wondering if there was something I was missing.

Is it correct that the Sony's don't do 1080p? Is that something that is going to change in the near future? How many devices are actually going to be able to output 1080p anyway?

I have an older Samsung DLP and my friend has a brand new (few months) one, both 50 inches. I think they both look terrific with anything we throw at em but some how after a couple weeks of having mine I now see the 'rainbow effect' pretty constantly, on both of them. My friend doesn't and nobody else even watching my older one does. I've learned to sort of ignore it now and I still love my TV as I prefer DLP picture quality to LCD. My dad has a CRT RPTV that is a few years old now (Mits) and looks great but I wanted 720p over 1080i.

Here's to hoping SED comes out soon and gets affordable.

Vikingships the first wave of Sony SXRDs were supposed to be 1080p and are advertised as such, however they are not. They are really 1080i This has caused a bit of controversary and Sony may have to compensate those who first made purchase of thos sets. The second wave of the SXRD sets is due in AUG in 55, 60 and 70 inch, but none will be XRB. The XRBs will be available in or around OCy/Nov as will a 50" as well. The cosmidic change for the newer set will be the side speakers, which have been droped and relocated to the bottom, under the screen A lot of people complained about the side speakers tagging them "dumbo" speakers. They made the set larger in width then many liked due to the additional room they required. Now with the speakers located on the bottom a larger TV can now fit in the same space need for models with the side speakers.
Another issue you should consider is the actual width of the TV screen. Although all claim to make widescreen 16:9 screens - they are not. Just take a look at Sony and compare to Samsung. The Samsung is not quite as wide or rectangular. Plasmas are correct but many DLPs are not. The Samsung pedistal model is. Most people don't notice this. And if you ask your self what wuld it matter then consider how a movie theatre screen looks when projecting the common 1.85:1 image. It's more rectangular like the Sony screen vs the Samsung which means there is some over scanning issues with the Samsung as with others that are incorrect in their screen size.
For me if I'm going to spend that much money in trying to achieve and enjoy a home theatre expericene I thing this yet another red flag to consider.
Hope this helps.

They have a nice listening room near the front of the building, right behind the front office. It didn't have any video equipment last time I was there but certainly the contents of the room change radically each time I visit. I wouldn't be surprised to find it full of video stuff now... it certainly has room for a nice sized screen at the front once you dig past the curtains and speakers.

Andrew, I've had a Samsung DLP for 3 years, and having just found it necessary to obtain a new one, the HL-S5687W (it's a long story ), I've done a lot of research on the doggone things. Here are a few things I've learned.

1. Your local BB or CC is not the best place to judge the PQ of an HDTV. There are too many variable over which you have no control, and nearly all HDTVs come out of the factory set to be as bright as possible to attract attention in a crowded showroom. The layman tends to perceive "brightest" as "best" just as, when comparing speakers, he tends to perceive "loudest" as "best."

2. No HDTV, be it CRT, LCD, LCoS, or DLP, will achieve it's potential unless it is ISF calibrated by a professional calibrator.

However! Most of us have become accustomed to watching an overly bright picture. When I first had my set ISF calibrated, I thought "OH C'MON! I can't live with a picture that dark." And, it did bother me for awhile. But, as time went by, I began to notice a detail and naturalness I had never seen in a TV picture before. It finally reached the point where I was thrilled with the HD PQ I was getting. Interestingly, the brightness of my bedroom TV (older 24" flat screen CRT) bothered me a little.

Now, I have the new Samsung. And, though I've done a preliminary calibration with my DVE (Digital Video Essentials) disc, beginning with some user menu settings recommended by a professional calibrator over at the AVS forum, and am quite pleased with the results, I'm eagerly awaiting a visit from my calibrator to tone this sucker down to the 6500k standard.

By the way, you can disregard the calibration pricing in the article linked to above. The article is 4 years old, and while the facts concerning ISF calibration remain accurate, the prices have changed.

3. The buzz by calibrators and knowledgeable laymen on the forums is that, out of the box, the Sony, and others, will provide better PQ. But, with a properly done ISF calibration, the Samsung 1080p sets have the greatest potential of achieving SMPTE standards. I, personally, cannot attest to the accuracy of the buzz.....................yet.

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Another issue you should consider is the actual width of the TV screen. Although all claim to make widescreen 16:9 screens - they are not. Just take a look at Sony and compare to Samsung. The Samsung is not quite as wide or rectangular. Plasmas are correct but many DLPs are not. The Samsung pedistal model is.

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I believe this is a misconception. I just walked over and measured my Samsung DLP, and the screen is exactly 16x9. If the Sonys are "wider" or more "rectangular," then they are the ones that are not 16x9. Can you please provide some links to proof of this claim?

Chess,

We kept it hidden from you, ha, ha.

We use the listening room at the plant and have various screens hung as well as checking out prototype projectors, LCD and plasma screens--and screen materials. Even electric screen motors get a workout.

I just ordered a HL-S5687W today, and can't wait for it to arrive!

I wish I hadn't read this stuff about the rainbow effect, so I'm going to try and keep it out of my mind and hopefully I don't see it. This model supposedly is a bit better at hiding that effect than their older models.

All I know is that I've been searching the web for reviews, and everyone loves their samsung. I love mine, and it isn't even here yet.

This is what's on the way to you. Don't look for the rainbows and you probably will never seen any. I've never seen them.

Andrew: when I was in the market for a HDTV, I compared the Samsung with the Sony, side to side. There was really NO comparison. The Sony won hands down!!!!! I went back to the store three different times and the result was always the same no matter what the source material. So, I bought the Sony.

Ditcin: I'm wondering about your comment that the Sony is NOT a 1080P?????? In fact, it is a 1080P and upconverts the 1080I or 720P source material to 1080P. I'm wondering if you are referring to the HDMI input ports that won't support 1080P???? If you have some reference, please post them because I would like to find out a little more about the situation.

Bernard, I believe you are correct. To the best of my knowledge, the Sonys are 1080p in that, as you say, they up-convert the signal to 1080p. I think he meant to say that the Sonys don't accept a 1080p input signal which the 2006 Samsungs do.

Jack, i don't know what you are looking at but i clearly see a rainbow there.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Son of a gun! I see it, too!

And all this time, I was sure the colors of the rainbow changed according to their radial distance, not their location along the arc...

Indeed, chess; that's the same thing that I saw in the store.

Bernard, I think the reference to it not being a 1080p set applied only to the fact that it wouldn't accept and process an actual 1080p input signal(e.g. some of the new HD DVDs, which also have a 1080i output however). It's a progressive scan set and its "native resolution" is 1080, therefore it has to display everything which is input at 1080p, and is a 1080p set. With a 1080i input it deinterlaces it to 1080p, although at least in theory a "real" 1080p input should be slightly better than 1080i deinterlaced to 1080p.

The new Sony SXRD KDS##A2000 series just coming out DOES accept a 1080P signal through the HDMI port. There is a 50, 55, and 60 inch model (fill in the ## with the size to look up a model). The 60 is already out, and the 50 comes out 8/2, the 55 8/16. I am planning on getting the 50.

DLP > all

Come on let's fight!

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I was sure the colors of the rainbow changed according to their radial distance, not their location along the arc...

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Hey, you either like the rainbow, or you don't, just like the other x% of the population that can see them.

Jack just couldn't see the obvious until i pointed it out.

Inane,

I agree! What DLP has always done extremely well, even from the 1st generation. is a kind of "pop" to the image, which translates to nice blacks, brilliant whites and an almost 3-D quality to the image with really good HD sources.
DLP traditionally hasn't been so great at shadow detail, nor has LCD front or rear projection. Good ol' CRT direct view is still better at shadow detail.

LCD front and rear projection has never had quite as good blacks as DLP because it is a transmissive device: the light shines through the LCD panels, which don't turn off totally, so you get somewhat grayish blacks. However the newer LCD projection sets (Sony) are overcoming this limitation with the auto-iris control.

Furthermore, the micro-mirrors on the DLP chip are closer together than the pixels on an LCD panel--that's why the "screen-door effect" of LCD may be visible and bother some viewers, just like the rainbow effects bother a tiny percentage of DLP viewers.

The latest generation of LCD (and variants) rear- and front-projection devices do not have visible screen-door effects that bother me.

Well I decided to get the Samsung, but I went up to the 61" in size instead on the 50". I have a 30 day guarantee so I thought I would get in the house and setup properly and then decide if I like it enough. I did like the cheaper price tag of the Samsung, which was a deterent from the Sony. And it bothered me that the Sony didn't except the 1080p signal. I don't have a blueray player yet, but I'm hopeing to in the future.

I set it up last night, but I haven't had time to adjust anything. So far i'm very impressed w/the DLP. I also had to rearrange my whole living room, so i'll get to adjust all my Axiom's again as well. I think i'll leave work early today and do that

I saw rainbows with my Samsung DLP for the first few weeks only. For whatever reason,. I don't think I've seen one in a year now!

I don't particulary like Plasma, so I'll put it last, but I would say:

Plasma<LCD<DLP<LCOS

Obviously it can vary some between different TV's, but that is my order in general.

I'm still quite a bit of a newbie... What's LCOS?

LCoS stands for Liquid Crystal on Silicon.

>>For whatever reason,. I don't think I've seen one in a year now!

This is a bad sign. You should seek medical attention immediately. Try to keep yourself sedated in the meantime.

Mark,

I can send you a private message with instructions on how to see them. Would you like that?

Throw a computer desktop up on a DLP, set the background to black then start moving your white mouse cursor all over the screen.

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2. No HDTV, be it CRT, LCD, LCoS, or DLP, will achieve it's potential unless it is ISF calibrated by a professional calibrator.

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If I don't have a professional calibrator come out, what can I do on my own to make the tv look better? Is there a specific calibration disc that is "the best"? What do y'all do when you get a new TV to adjust the picture?

Here is a post from a noted calibrator (Eliab) which will give you some settings to begin with, and a link to a tutorial (which is worth printing) on doing a basic user calibration with Digital Video Essentials (DVE).

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Congrats on your new display! Here are some settings that you may want to use that'll likely render a more accurate image.


Digital NR - OFF
DNIe - Off
Mode - Movie
Contrast - 50
Brightness - 50
Sharpness - 0
Color - 45
Tint - G50/R50
Color Tone - Warm2


If you want to take it up another level, I'd suggest performing a Digital Video Essentials (DVE) user-level setup. Here's a link to a tutorial that Dave Abrams and I wrote for American Wired a few months ago that may assist you with the procedure.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7913037&&#post7913037

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Though I ended up reducing both my brightness and contrast a bit more, by using his recommended initial settings, and then calibrating with the DVE disc, I've got a picture I can live with until my calibrator can get out to see me.

By the way, Eliab, and other national calibrators, like Gregg Loewen of Lion A/V, and Jeff Meier (screen name = UMR at the AVS forum), tour all over the country doing calibrations. Look for the "Tours" links on their web sites to see if, and when, they might be coming to your area.

Thanks alot Ajax. I'll look into that!

Andrew

I ended up getting a 5688. I had ordered a 5687, but cancelled it soon afterward and got the 88 model instead. I love it!

I took this picture last night while watching Return of the King (I guess I should have used a flash, but this has more ambiance ) :

Congrats! I'm very fond of my 5687, as well. I have a mild case of 88 envy.

Pics are Mandatory!

I was concerned that the silver strip on the front bezel of the 87s would be distracting, but it is a very dull silver color and I never notice it at all.

My last set had PIP, and though I only used it a few times (to watch two sporting events at the same time), it was nice to have it when I wanted it. I'll miss that feature during football season. However, if I understand things correctly, PIP won't work with HD signals.

I don't mind not having cablecard, a QAM tuner, or firewire, and that only leaves 1:1 pixel mapping.

Overscan can be turned off, on both the 87s and 88s, by accessing the service menu (not recommended unless you KNOW what you're doing - it allegedly voids the warranty unless done by a qualified technician), which allows 1:1 pixel mapping, but, for some reason, when the 87s are powered off, the overscan setting defaults to "on". It remains "off" on the 88s. While many report they can't tell the difference, I would like to see if I can.

The above features are the only differences between the two series of which I'm aware.