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#16842 - 08/08/03 04:10 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16437
Loc: Ben Lomond, California
Speaker break-in (SBI) is this forum's favorite debate. Those on the pro side will quickly be crushed beneath the weight of the con's side two-ton gorilla.

The reason the "empiricists" get bent out of shape is that they have their work cut out for them. Let's face it: One of science's greatest axioms ( ) is that it's easier to prove something exists than to prove it does not exist. Those who believe in SBI don't need any proof other than their own experience.

I say let them eat cake.
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

#16843 - 08/08/03 05:11 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
JohnnyCasaba Offline

Registered: 06/25/03
Posts: 50
Zarak that is very interesting, because after the second session I was definitely suffering from "listener fatigue". But this was not a problem at the session conducted at your place. So as you said, this difference could come down to speaker break-in, room acoustics and heaven forbid (lol) the
electronics used.

#16844 - 08/08/03 06:56 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
goldswimer Offline

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 3
Yea, when I first got them, I listened to them, then left them playing while I was at work, and when I came back the treble had toned down a signifigant amount, although any break ins I tried after that made no audible differance I could hear. Return shipping wasnt a lot, and I dont feel unsatisfied at all for those of you guys who are wondering about buying. There isnt a set of speakers out there that I have ever heard that comes close to the midrange performance, I ended up with some athena as-b2's which will have to tide me over for now, sound is good, but the defenition wasnt up to that of the axioms, the Axioms just beat the hell out of them in detail, the athenas have a very reccesed midrange and the axioms bring out all the midranges detail, I think I just found the Axioms way too sharp for my taste, while the Athenas are really so-so as far as their treble goes. Its not as sharp though, so at least I can live with these for now while I am saving to put some heavy cash into a referance system. By all means give em a try, better to do that and end up spendin 30 bucks sendin em back than to spend double/triple for speakers that sound the same or lesser than the Axioms....just my thoughts.

#16845 - 08/08/03 07:31 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
cblake Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Well there's no shame in not liking a speaker's tonal characteristics; and every piece of audio equipment will color the sound in some way or another. People's continuing fascination with tube and vinyl gear is, I believe, a testament to how preferences can diverge from naked accuracy.

One problem is that most of today's music is grossly compressed, with the treble boosted well above what is natural. This is an attempt to catch your ear when blaring over car stereos. While the brightness of my Paradigms sometimes annoyed me, I would completely forget about it on many recordings that were more neutral.

So I guess my point is that I think CDs are typically much less neutral than speakers, and if you listen to a lot of pop recordings you might want speakers that trim back the treble a bit. When you listen to a well-recorded bit of classical music, it's amazing how natural it sounds. Not to give you second thoughts or anything; but as you admit, it's hard to give up the detail of the Axioms! Good luck to you and trust your ears


#16846 - 08/08/03 07:48 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
goldswimer Offline

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 3
Yea, I do believe all that to be true, problem is, I listen to everything, classical, jazz, rock, acoustic, dance, and I would say that it did bring out some nice charecter in pianos, and added extra energy to classical music, but it did still feel a bit over the edge, nowhere near the harshness of modern pop/rock though, but thats an issue with recordings and not speakers.......and since in my case I do own a ton of different genres, I need a little bit less treble to suffice all my recordings. Not as much accuracy I suppose, but I enjoy the music more that way, and thats what its all about.

#16847 - 08/08/03 08:24 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
spiffnme Offline

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5233
Loc: Los Angeles
Good point. As much as I love my axioms, many pop and rock cd's don't sound so great. But I know it's the cd, not the speakers, so I deal with it. Beside, I don't listen to very much pop/rock.
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

#16848 - 08/09/03 01:38 AM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
Saturn Offline

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canuck
Hi Curtis;

I had my Dad's NAD 752, my Rotel RSX 1065 and my brothers HK AVR225 hooked up to my Marantz CD63 Special Edition CD player hooked up to my old Monitor Audio Silver S6 in the same room. At sound levels equal I could not tell the difference. All were damn bright. Silver S6 is bright, forward and has a floppy bass. I had the same Rotel above and the Onkyo Integra DTR 5.1 hooked up to a old crappy Toshiba DVD player into my old B&W 302 in the same room above. Couldn't tell the difference. Both were muddy and full in the bass. Due to the speakers of course.
I have now the same Marantz CD63SE hooked into PMC DB1 and tried with the Rotel RSX1065 and it sounded good. I hooked up my Bryston 4B to the preouts of the Rotel and into the PMC and the sound definitely opened up. I had a better sound stage and more resolution. I had my dad, my fiancee and friends come over during the last couple of weeks and ask if they could tell a difference. All of them said they did. I never mentioned about the Bryston. They don't know about stuff like this minus my dad. The sound when powered by the Bryston gave me the same dynamics and soundstage as I heard in the shop when the speakers were paired with a Krell KSA Integrated. Unfortunately I do not do scientific measurements.
This opinion is solely my personal view and all can take it with a grain of salt. I was a firm believer before that amps didnt matter. I was right in certain aspect but kinda wrong in certain ways too. I went out and tried it and all in the same living room.
If you are using Denons, Yammys, Rotels, HK, Pioneers most will be hard pressed to find a difference in 2 stereo mode. The Pioneer is kinda funky in that surround stuff. It does a fantastic job with that MCCACC
The moment you go with Krells, Brystons, Conrad Johnson, Classe, Mark Levinson (all of which I have heard) ... amps that are considered Class A and pushing 150, 250, 350+ watts ... it is not necessarily better but there is a change in sound quality. When does that law of diminishing returns start kicking in for those individuals who pay 2K 3K 5K 10k for that added depth of stage and resolution over the sub 1.5k reciever/separates.
_________________________ new HT

#16849 - 08/09/03 02:17 AM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
curtis Offline

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 1501
Loc: Manhattan Beach, CA
I have been thinking about this issue a bit. Maybe it was the quality of the amps/receivers that caused the differences that I heard. hmmmmmm

#16850 - 08/09/03 12:42 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
Zarak Offline

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1852
Loc: PA
I played the "Ride" again at my place this morning. We were listening at about 84dB at Marks. I cranked it up to around 90dB today. At 90, I started to hear a little bit of the high end harshness, and as we saw before it started to go away as I lowered the volume. So, there is still some harshness at the upper ends, but not to the extreme we heard it at Marks. Is this the room dynamics, other components, cables, speaker break in...I'll leave that for the rest of you to debate.

#16851 - 08/09/03 06:54 PM Re: INSANELY BRIGHT?
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10621
Fletcher-Munson Effect, Jason.

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

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