Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater 3808 owners: have u purchased your feature upgrade

I just pulled the trigger and re-ran Audyssey. So for so good. I was *TIRED* of diving for the remote during TBS-HD's baseball playoff. With dynamic volume on, I haven't touched my remote.

Sound doesn't sound clipped or anything (like when using the normal night mode setting). I was just curious if anyone else purchased it yet. So far so good. I'll put in a BD movie to see how it sounds.

FYI, There is a thread in the Water Cooler with links to the 3808 threads on AVSForum. I will be getting the upgrades probably at the end of the month.

Hansang - thanks for the update. Your positive report is nearly enough for me to pull the trigger as well. Sounds like a very useful feature.

Is anyone else disappointed that a receiver at this price requires a purchase that should have been included to begin with in this class?

No, they could have just released the 3809(which apparrently they are not as, this was the solution) and made us purchase a whole new avr. These are feature upgrades not firmware, we bought the system as it was and to pay a little for a few more new features doesn't bother me.

Any way you can send the firmware upgrade to me Jason? :).

firmware upgrades are free, feature upgrades are not (allthough I would like it if they were) The xbox 360 and PS3 cost a fraction of the cost of the 3808 and they often have feature upgrades at no cost. I guess you can't really compare gaming consoles to receivers but it would be nice if the upgrades for the 3808 were free.

No, it doesn't bother me. I wish they had a $50 option just for the dyn vol/eq and $100 with everything else. I don't care about the "everything else" part but so be it. The higher models to get the updates for free, so I'm OK with that. You pay more, you get freebies for ...well...free. Kinda like my BMW service/maintenance is free but I pay more. My Volvo doesn't come with free maintenance but it also doesn't cost as much as a BMW. So it's a good balance in my opinion. Finally, folks who bought it in Sept (I think) get it for free. I for one am glad they are making this available via a software upgrade.

*** KEY POINT**** You have to RERUN Audyssey for it to work so please be aware of that before making the plunge!

I wish there was a difference between my repair maintenance with my $15,000 electric wheelchair and my $6,000 manual wheelchair; they are my wheels

But there isn't

Just wondering what feature upgrades(totally new features not already on the systems) have come across the consoles? And it would seem to me that any new feature on a console is put on it to help game sales which is where the true profit is for the manufacturers. I do not follow PS3 and Xbox, as I only have the Wii and it really doesn't have new features just some new channels, in which some you pay for, some you don't.

I agree it would be nice if this upgrade was free(free is always nice) but the 3808 works great with out the new features, so it still comes down to you don't have to get them if you don't want to pay. From a Denon stand point they do not have new game sales or anything else to help drive up profit except the avr itself, so to me the $100 is justified, $50 would be better or let us pick which ones we want as I think most are just interested in the Dynamic EQ and volume EQ.

Let's look at it this way, how many of you out there are willing to design and provide a certain product and then not get paid for it? I know I like to get paid.

Like I said they could have easily released the new fetures on a new model, 3809, and left the rest of us hanging, instead they have allowed us the ability through the network connectivity (instead of taking in to a service center as in the past)to get this upgrade with out the need to spend $1000+ on another avr.

Well, to be fair, PS3 added the ability to decode DTS-MA with a free FW upgrade. It's not "totally" new but it's a distinct functionality that wasn't there before the FW upgrade.

Oh, stop being all logic and researched and stuff, Charles.

Hey, it was easier to provide links than to try to summarize, so give me SOME credit for being lazy.

Thanks guys, very informative.

Been doing some more reading and it looks like the 2809 is going to have some the new features on it, most notably the volume EQ and DynamicEQ, combined with what the gaming consoles are doing, charging for the update isn't looking so good to me now, but I will still get it.

Yeah one of the biggest features that will be added to the new xbox experience is the ability to stream over 10,000 instant movies from your netflix account right to your 360 without any extra hardware.

The xbox also updated there media sharing abilities to support several formats that it previously did not support such as mpg, avi, ext. I think it only use to accept *.wmv files.

Another cool xbox 360 update was when they added the MSN messenger to the dashboard.

but yeah... the whole list is in the links from CV

Don't get me wrong- I am glad thatn't free and it IS free for the more expensive receivers sucks... I think an MSRP $1599 receiver is dang expensive and should be elegible for free feature updates.

I just downloaded software from PlayOn that does this same thing on the PS3 (and Xbox 360). It not only links to Netflix, it also links to YouTube, ESPN, CNN, Hulu, and others. It is the coolest software upgrade I've added to my PS3 in some time. If you haven't heard of Hulu, check it out as it's a very cool service for legal downloads of hundreds of network and cable shows.

Jason

yeah, I read about the play on feature at xboxscene.com and thought it seemed pretty cool. I may give it a shot...

It's free for 30 or 45 days and a lot of fun. If nothing else, it gives you one more place to burn time watching random YouTube videos.

The old SNL clips on Hulu are also a great time filler.

yeah I remember it being a trial service. For us xbox360 users that are only interested in seeing netflix movies the free fall update will be a better deal. I still may check it out though.

So what’s the verdict on this upgrade? The dynamic volume function looks like something I can use. I couldn’t care less about music streaming.

I’m going to wait a couple more weeks before upgrading. There has to be a bug or gremlin that comes with the first push and I’m tired of dealing with them.

If there isn't now, there will be when you get it, Mike!

LOL!! Ya, I reckon you are correct Ken! They tend to follow me around......

From most of the responses, it appears things are working correctly the first time around or I have just been bypassing the ones that are reporting issues to make me feel better about wanting to do this upgrade. I will just wait to see what gremlins Mike gets when he does his

I would definitely wait a few weeks and monitor the AVS forum dedicated to this feature upgrade. I just couldn't handle the loud commercials on TBS-HD anymore! (watching playoff baseball)

I recently purchased a Denon avr-889 for my upstairs system as I got a great deal on the receiver from the local BestBuy. Two things surprised me about this receiver.

1. No pre-outs. Didn't really need them but I thought at this level of receiver they would be there.

2. The sound was very good with Audyssey.

Now when I purchased my 3808 a few months back I was un-impressed with Audyssey and ended up turning Audyssey off.

I didn't realize until I read about this upgrade that the 889 has the dynamic EQ and Dynamic volume features. I hadn't tried the dynamic volume until after I read about this but the dynamic EQ seemed to work really well. It seems to give the sound an extra crispness and punch. Highs seem clearer and more pronounced and the bass has more punch to it.

Late Saturday night I went ahead and got the update for the 3808 and lo and behold the sound difference was quite noticeable. While I have enjoyed the 3808 I always felt that while it was a great functioning receiver that it didn't quite have the gusto that I was looking for. Even after adding outboard amps it sounded good but not quite great. The Dynamic EQ system seems to have filled in whatever was missing before with the regular Audyssey.

So all in all in my opinion the Dynamic EQ works great and to me the 3808 seems greatly improved. I have the Dynamic volume enabled as well but haven't experimented with it too much yet. It would have been nice if it was free but for me the upgrade was worth the $100. YMMV.

Cheers!

A-ha!!, I am not crazy, I am not the only one who felt that Audyssey was lacking until this update. I have spent a couple of hours playing different songs and turning the EQ off and on and going to flat mode and the EQ setting is a marked improvement.

You're still crazy.

I may have to look into this update if Audyssey is improved that much. Thanks for the report, guys!

You're right!!! I just feel vindicated about my initial report of the Audyssey sounding better now.

Ditto on the upgrade if Audyssey is improved.

+1 on the fact that you're crazy

Jakewash,
Was that with a Denon 3808? I mean were you calibrating with MultEQ or MultEQ XT?

Yes, I have the 3808 and from what I could remember of the sound I had with the Audyssey enabled the first time around compared to what I have now is a large improvement. I didn't like the first time all that much and ended up running the system with out the EQ enabled. Now it sounds somewhat lifeless with out it....at least while switching it on and off for comaprison purposes. In my room I now get a near surround effect from a 2.1 setup. The soundstage seems to be well beyond the width and height of the speakers, it really fills the room up, much more expansive, kind of like what I hear with the Axiom subs.

All,
I installed the new update. It definitely sounds better with the update. Is it worth $100? I guess it's all relative to what you think... My thoughts are this... I spent $3400+ on speakers, and $1200 on the Denon, $100+ on Speaker cables, HDMI cables, Banana plugs, etc.. so what's another hundy to have it all...

- JD

Can't argue with that logic. I haven't pulled the trigger yet myself but with all the positive reports I'm sure it won't be long.

Jason

One thing though...you did achieve that Calista Flockhart curve, so keep in mind that you have to rerun Audyssey.

Doh... good point. I really don't want to do that anytime soon again. (Before long though, I'm sure the itch to tinker will hit me again)

Hey, since my "Mr. Fancypants" thing didn't go anywhere, could you all appease me by making a verb out of my "Calista Flockhart" comment?

Reading something like " I just have to get a RatShack meter and Flockhart my listening room " would be just dandy.

That is all.

What about calistafy?

Calistafacation?

(that sounds a little dirty. I like it!)

Especially dirty if you use a soft, d-like t.

how about "flocked"? as in, "did you flock it?" or "did you try flocking it?" "Yes, it's been flocked"

Dangerously close, no?

I like Calistafy.

I propose CF, which means Calista Factor.

Statement: The curve has a CF of 1.

Translation: That curve is exactly the shape of Calista Flockhart's body, i.e. square wave.

CF factor. Sweet. I like it!

It's making me flock hartily.

Jake:
Am I mistaken, or are you saying that there will not be a Denon 3809?

No plans in the works from what I have read in various sites for a 3809 as the upgradeability has made it un-nessecary.

To resurrect an old thread, I thought I'd update you guys that I ended up purchasing the feature upgrade a little over a week ago. I reran the Audyssey calibration Friday and have been listening to it since.

I have to agree with what others posted above, it really is an impressive update. I find the Dynamic EQ makes the audio at all volumes seem more full and rich (cliche terms I realize, but it's the best way I can describe it).

Contrary to every Audyssey calibration I've done before this upgrade, I also feel that it improves bass response in my room. Before this, I always ended up turning Audyssey off because I felt that it cut too much bass from the system. I now prefer the Audyssey sound for everything I've listened to thus far. The bass level seems to be very well-matched with the rest of the speakers at all volumes. It provides for very smooth bass that just plain sounds awesome. I'm enjoying the 600 all over again.

Dynamic Volume is also nice when watching TV, but not nearly as impressive as Dynamic EQ.

For $100, it's more than worth it.

Jason

OK, you have convinced me. MY GF gave me th go-ahead but only after I told her about the dynamic volume feature that would keep the commercials from being so loud. Does that feature really work? If I buy it and it doesn't work she will be pissed! (She doesn't care or understand all the other stuff)

If it doesn't, buy an RF remote and hold it in your back. Create a macro that rapid fires VOL- a bunch of times.

Honey...Dynamic volume kicks in a sec or two...it's dynamic! Geesh, what do you expect, if we had the AVP-A1HDCI, it would be instantaneous!

See if that pig will fly!!!!

David - the Dynamic Volume control does work. It comes with a downside, however. To me, it just seems to function like a seriously upgraded version of what Denon used to call Dynamic Range Compression in their feature menu.

It cuts out the highs and the lows and mushes them all together at a medium volume. So, when listening to movies or music, you're not going to want to use this setting. Even when listening to a good movie on cable in 5.1 sound, you probably won't want to use it because of the compression.

However, when watching "Deal or No Deal" or you girlfriend's favorite soap opera it works very nicely. It actually has 3 settings, Day, Night, Midnight (I think those are the names - think of them as low, medium, and high compression). So far I've only used "Day" and found that it definitely cuts the volume difference between TV and commercials without creating a big negative impact on sound during the actual TV programming.

At this level though, there is still a slight bump in volume when the commercials start, but it is definitely attenuated from what it is like without the feature. I imagine on medium or high compression the transition is even more smooth, but I haven't played with it enough to be completely sure. I wanted to try it at the low setting first to minimize compression on the sound I actually wanted to hear. I imagine I'll eventually settle on the medium setting and keep it there for my DirecTV input. It can be set by input and the Denon remembers which input has what setting, so if you turn it on for your cable/sat input, it does not affect your DVD, etc., which is the way you want it.

Hope that helps sell the GF... though the difference with Dynamic EQ is what you'll really like. A win-win.

Jason

Almost four years ago, I asked in Part V of my "Mother of all Posts" about the "Loudness" button and what ever became of it:

"What happened to "Loudness" controls? Don't human ears perceive Bass and Treble differently at lower volumes anymore, or was that never the case? I don't see that button or receivers or pre/pros anymore…. "

I think it's a bit funny that the Denon offers that as it's main feature in a $100 upgrade! Is there at least a switch on the front to engage it or a remote-enabled switch for it?

Don't get me wrong, I've always loved the "loudness" buttons for when I wanted to play something softly and didn't want it to sound thin, it's just funny to me that it came back as an extra-cost option!

Next up: a $75 option to switch your FM tuner to Mono for weak stations!

Hey you kids, get off my lawn!

Wow! I had not seen that post of yours (and I thought I was writing long posts!). Amazing cabinet and quite a lot of impressive things you built (the QS8 back plates are stunning).

But, when I see your room, it does seem like you might be having bass issues in there. How did you solve them (if you actually noticed them, of course)!

Where do all the loudness buttons go? They just die... There is no such thing as silicon heaven... not even as implants.

I believe this option / upgrade is free to owners after a certain 3808 purchase date.

Yes, I believe so. But for all the people that bought it earlier....!

Really? I thought that was required reading when anyone joined the forum?

I still have the bass issues. My dream is to build a couple of end tables that straddle two of the new 350s and have the two subs even out the bass. I'm not anywhere near confident enough that it will work to spend $1500 on the subs, though!

[ Denon increased the price of the 3808 by $100, so technically it was not free to them either. The owners of newer 3808 have to fill out a refund form and send away for it if their newer 3808 did not have the upgraded features on it, which means they had to pay another $100 to get the new features on top of the extra $100 from the price increase.

The problem you have is that it is way too nice a room to start installing ugly bass traps. I am considering some myself, mostly because the two troublesome corners are not visible (or only partially in one case). But your living room is very nice. And these things are expensive!

Also... I don't have a wife and I change girlfriends often enough that they never reach the point of daring to make suggestions on what I am allowed to put or not put in MY living room!

So, in the end, Ray3 was right all along: The solution to having a great HT experience is to "Sell the Wife"!

Jay: I didn't realize that Denon had a $100 price increase.

I'm surprised. Though the 3808 is well-liked, it's been out a year and new competition has come along. Throw in the economy and the fact that peoples' budgets and discretionary income is likely down, they might have done better to use it as something shiny to wave in front of people to give them a little incentive over the competition.

Chris (CTO of Audyssey) explained it pretty well on AVS forum. But suffice to say, it's not just a bump in the wire for LFE to make it louder. If that were the case, I could do it with my sub's volume knob!

Oh, and it's remote capable on/off. Dynamic EQ really does make bass sound better.

Mark - I think of the earlier loudness capabilities as a one-size fits all bump of certain frequencies. It adds that bump no matter how loudly you listen, which works much better at some levels than others.

What Audyssey did is came up with a more advanced formula to apply the "loudness" effect. It takes into account all of the Audyssey readings done in your room and then applies their algorithm to bump the right frequencies the right amount at the current volume level. This is different for each room and at each volume level, so it's something that would be impossible to do without linking it to the Audyssey calibration.

Would I like it to be included for free? "Hell ya," but given that it was something new and not common to other receivers (yet), I was more willing to pay for the upgrade. Now that I have, I'm very happy I did. The difference is very apparent, especially when I thought it would be hard to make my previous system sound much better. This is like a whole new level of goodness (the opposite of suckage) that I hadn't imagined possible out of the same system.

Jason

The opposite of suckage? There IS such a thing?

I should have included more or bigger smilies in my post. I honestly DID assume that there was more to it than a simple bass boost, I just couldn't help standing on the soapbox a bit in comparing it to the "Loudness" button that was on everything in years past. Part of the fun is sounding like a cranky old man, though I still have a few years to go for that!

You just have to keep working on the cranky part

I remember my Kenwood box had it. It was pretty much pushed in all the time so it never really made much difference. Of course if you record FM songs onto a cassette tape, I doubt fidelity was my primary concern!

Oh hell, did I just get the RIAA lawyers on my ass?

You've got a long ways to go.

Lickage?

Mark. Amazing!! I had never taken the time to go back and read what is truly, The Mother of All Posts. It could be easily published as a How To Book for a clean, effective and attractive HT seup.

Really nice craftsmanship. Your room might be square but the work done to make it all come together is second to none.

For those that are wondering about the Sirius Radio hook up and what is involved you need this and obviously the sirius radio subscribtion.

Youch... gets pricey to add Sirus to the Denon. I guess I assumed that part of the feature pack upgrade made it possible to connect to Sirius without the external hardware. (which was maybe naive as it's called 'satellite radio' but I thought you could get it through the ethernet connection.)

What does the feature pack upgrade actually give you in the Denon if you still have to have an external tuner? Remote control of station selection from the Denon GUI, but only coupled with a device like this?

Well, to bring back an old thread, I finally got around to downloading my free 3808 upgrades. Installation went perfectly smooth...I don't know that I'll ever purchase an expensive component without ethernet capability.

Anyway the Audyssey options for Dynamic EQ and Dynamic volume are grayed out, but I assume that' only because I have to run Audyssey again. I went back and read this thread, and noted the comments that Audyssey sounds better after the upgrade. That has me feeling a bit inspired to run the Audyssey tonight. Previously, I could take it or leave it. Maybe things will perk up after the newer version.

Quick question though: My original remote is hidden away as I use an MX700. Is there a way to get straight to an Audyssey Dynamic Volume lo/med/hi and a dynamic EQ on/off (or whatever the options are for that feature) rather than having to go through the menu?

I can imagine wanting to change the Dynamic Volume pretty frequently depending upon the source, and that would be a pain if you have to go through the menu...

Mark,
I don't know about the MX700, but my MX900 got an update that could toggle between DynVol+DynEQ ON, DynVol Only ON, Dyn Only On, Dyn Vol and DynEQ OFF. I believe it was called "suuround <sic> parameter" in the new URC DB update.

Hmmmm...I might be in trouble then. I ended up putting in all the codes via "learning mode"...

Not sure if my earlier post made it or not... but just in case

my MX900 got a DB update from URC. It has the ability to toggle through the different settings:
1) dyn vol + dyn eq on
2) dyn vol on
3) dyn eq on
4) dyn vol and dyn eq off.

They called it "suurround <sic> parameters"

I would hope that the dynamic volume setting would also be remembered per source on the settings like the rest of the settings are.

I guess my thoughts / concern would be if I'm watching some stuff on TiVo (all the same input on the receiver):

I watch a show like, say, "24" .. and it's intense and in HD with a good soundtrack, so I want all compression off.

Then I put on a M*A*S*H, where there's NOT a lot going on in the soundtrack, and I want the commercials quiter, so I want some compression.

Then I watch Soundstage and I want it off.

Then Joyce goes to bed, so I want it on....

Might be a bit of an extreme example, but if I have to go five steps into a menu each time.....!

You should be OK. I'm pretty sure Denon changed the function of one of the buttons on the original remote to cycle through it. I think it's in the upgrade README PDF that came with the upgrade.

Hmmm.. there was no README with my download or email....

OK, I promised a few people an update on the update to the 3808. That sentence sounds like a drinking game...

Anyway, I updated to the new feature pack and am very impressed.

When I got the receiver and ran Audyssey, I wasn't particularly thrilled with any of the EQ options. It did fine with speaker distances, but I don't think it did anything to really improve the sound in my case. After you download the update / feature pack, you have to run Audyssey again, which I did Thursday night.

After going back and forth between "off", "Audyssey", "Audyssey Flat" and "Audyssey Bypass L/R", I can't say that I have any real preference. I went through a few well-recorded CDs and concert DVDs and as I've read from others, sometimes I'd prefer one setting for one song, but prefer a different setting for another. I didn't really expect miracles in my troublesome room (though it would have been a pleasant surprise!) so I'm not necessarily disappointed in those results, and think everyone else's results will be different.

I am LOVING the new Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Audyssey Dynamic Volume though and would never buy another receiver without this or similar technology. I've written before about my missing the old "loudness" buttons on older equipment. I know that they were a little sledgehammer-like in their execution, but they still helped to solve what I always consider a fundamental flaw in receivers without it: How music becomes much thinner and less involving at lower volumes. Funny enough, my very first post here involved questioning whether or not Axioms played nice at a softer volumes or required lots of power and volume before coming to life. Well, I've been happy in my M60s except in the loss of bass at lower volumes...and that's not the speakers fault.

Audyssey Dynamic EQ not only increases the bass output as the volume gets lower, but intelligently raises the level of surrounds as well. This morning, as every Sunday morning, I read through the Sunday paper in front of the system and I had a couple of episodes of HD Soundstage available from the TiVo. When I do this Sunday morning thing, I keep the volume relatively low (~70dB) so as to not wake Joyce and I usually manually turn up the sub to keep a "full sound".

I have been keeping the Audyssey Dynamic EQ engaged at all times, but this morning was the first time it really, really strutted it's stuff. As I was watching well-recorded concerts in 5.1, I took a bit of time to engage/disengage the feature and found it dramatic. I know it's a bit of cliché, but with the feature off, the sound just literally collapsed to the front, sounding so thin in comparison that it was as if I only had the TVs built-in speakers on. The "crowd" sounds in the rear channels weren't there anymore, and the bass lessening just made it sound weak. Again, I don't and never have blamed the Axioms for this, it's just the natural way we hear things. The bass thing I expected, though it's so very nice not to have to keep readjusting the subs' output depending upon the volume level! The difference in the surround channels was at least as dramatic to me, though. For all practical purposes, at these softer volumes, it was like I was switching between 3.0 channels and 5.1 channels!

Audyssey Dynamic Volume is impressive as well, but, without sounding cocky about it, I'm pretty used to dealing with good compressors in some of my music and voiceover recording so it doesn't jump out at me quite as much. Maybe part of that is also that I haven't had a night or morning yet where I was looking to watch TV without waking Joyce. This morning, since I was watching music-based programming, I left Audyssey Dynamic Volume off / bypassed. If I were watching an episode of Family Guy, I would have engaged it. It does what it's supposed to do and looks like it'll serve it's purpose well. I'm just pretty used to that technology and haven't really made use of it yet. Actually, I have an Alesis 3630 compressor

that's been unused for a few years, and I've wondered in the past about incorporating it into the rack but I think the lack of remote capability would drive me up the wall. (As an aside, I've still wondered about incorporating it in the sub's chain before or after my Feedback Destroyer to see how a little compression of lower frequencies might help some of my bass issues).

Anyway, I've got to say, I haven't even touched the Rhapsody or Sirius aspects of the feature upgrade, but I think the Audyssey changes are easily worth $100 as it simply allows so much more programming to sound it's best under real-world (non-reference) levels.

Further, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm officially thrilled with the 3808 purchase. I started off feeling pretty good about it, but over the last several months, I've been continually more and more impressed with it. From little features such as it's GUI and on-screen displays, renaming inputs, variable crossovers, it's network connection allowing firmware updates, discovering internet radio and now it's implementation (and network updated) feature package, I really don't see being happier or ever buying a lesser receiver if I can afford it.

If you're on the fence, get one while you can get the feature pack and 6th Avenues' pricing!

Very nice, Mark! Thanks for taking the time and sharing your experiences with the upgrade pack. I can see myself purchasing it in the near future.

Well, hurry, dammit.

Yeah, Sean, hurry, before Mark feels his post was inadequate and he makes a second Mother.

Talk about peer pressure!!!

Being a sale lover, the 6ave price was looking awesome until I heard a 3810 was around the corner (June my dealer says). Though I'd love to wait ans see what new features IT has, My 'saleiness'(OK cheapness and lack of discretionary funds!) would scoff (read choke) at the thought of paying actual MSRP! Pfhhhht!

So the allure of the 3810's arrival is strictly on how fr!@@!n soon the 3808 price hopefully drops off a cliff like the 2808 did when the 2809 came around! Yes, I am greedy, I time the market, and all bad things like that! I am new to this HT lunacy,... er strong appreciation thereof ;o) so I don't have a 'Spider Sense' of how much lower the 3808 price might go in the next month or so. If it was only expected to drop $100 (from curr. 6Ave price) and not until the 3810 actually hit the shelves, I would buy it now. So fellow frugalites, what say ye? Jump now or lay low ready to spring on an assuredly reeeeeaaaaalllly awesome 3808 price.

PS. I currently have a 1909 which should keep me plenty happy when my new Axioms arrive in a few weeks, so the trigger finger is not 'too' itchy yet... But that could change.