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#319811 - 08/24/10 01:12 PM M3's horizontally
Emzdogz Offline
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Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 110
How worried should I be? I have placed my M3's horizontally (on their sides) with the back tipped up a tiny bit, at ear level or slightly over...and I could swear they sound better this way.

Should I just enjoy and be happy, or is this just so WRONG that I must question the reality of my own ears, and force myself to stand them upright again?

Still loving them, but find that positioning is "key" and in my room I have very few options. But this seems to work!
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#319815 - 08/24/10 01:13 PM Re: M3's horizontally [Re: Emzdogz]
SirQuack Offline
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If it sounds good, great, however by turning them on their sides you would be "turning" the horizontal dispersion of the speaker drivers to be vertical.
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#319830 - 08/24/10 01:47 PM Re: M3's horizontally [Re: SirQuack]
Emzdogz Offline
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Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 110
that's what makes me doubt myself. I guess it doesn't hurt to experiment.
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#319833 - 08/24/10 01:58 PM Re: M3's horizontally [Re: Emzdogz]
wbedford Offline
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Registered: 07/23/10
Posts: 74
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Trust your ears. Try a double blind test where someone else orients them in diff positions.
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#319865 - 08/24/10 04:10 PM Re: M3's horizontally [Re: wbedford]
Emzdogz Offline
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Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 110
great idea, wbedford - thanks!
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#319871 - 08/24/10 04:19 PM Re: M3's horizontally [Re: Emzdogz]
wbedford Offline
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Registered: 07/23/10
Posts: 74
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I tried a similar experiment with Infinity Primus 150's (which I currently employ as speakers in the living room being fed by a Yamaha HTR-N5060).

I couldnt consistently tell the difference between vertical or horizontal placement. The only change I could consistently pick out was when the speaker was oriented upside down vs right side up in vertical placement.

Try this with a capable partner (and a few beer). Dont be shy and get the blindfold out. With the right person, Beer, blindfolds and music makes for a fun hour.... smile
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#319875 - 08/24/10 04:34 PM Re: M3's horizontally [Re: wbedford]
SirQuack Offline
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Unless there is a reason why you need to place the speaker on its side because of space issues, there really is no reason to as you would be defeating the whole design/enginerring of the speaker.
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#319902 - 08/24/10 09:33 PM Re: M3's horizontally [Re: wbedford]
fredk Offline
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Registered: 12/06/07
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Loc: Canada
Quote:
Try this with a capable partner (and a few beer). Dont be shy and get the blindfold out. With the right person, Beer, blindfolds and music makes for a fun hour....

"Hi. I'm here for the audition. I brought the beer. Um, whats the blindfold for?"
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#320340 - 08/27/10 11:09 PM Re: M3's horizontally [Re: fredk]
Dave B Offline
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Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 79
Loc: Chicago
How is it double blind if one person is clearly able to tell a difference when he sets the speaker?

I'm all for beer-based testing sessions, of course. (In fact, right now I've got some organ music playing at earth-shaking volumes after having a few.) But there's nothing especially double blind about it that I know of.

On another note, I'm going to guess that certain rooms can tolerate this a lot more than others. Specifically, those that are kind of poor for sound in general. In them, horizontal vs vertical probably matters a lot less, as a (total guess here) 10% reduction in quality in a room that only lets you achieve 50% quality anyway is much less noticeably different than a perfectly engineered room.

I'm a bit tipsy though, so noone should put any money behind my guesses and/or logic.

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#320343 - 08/27/10 11:22 PM Re: M3's horizontally [Re: Dave B]
ClubNeon Offline
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Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3466
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Originally Posted By: Dave B
How is it double blind if one person is clearly able to tell a difference when he sets the speaker?

Double blind studies are used to rule out actual differences from prejudice.

If you don't know the how's and why's, here's the short of it.

The "double" means both the tester and testee, are unaware of which sample is being tested. Or if the tester does know there's no way for that information to be communicated to the testee (that means no forms of communication between the two, not even non-verbal forms like body language).

The two samples are presented. The testee is then tasked with identifying each one uniquely after each switch. If he is only correct around 50% of the time, then it is just chance. But if one sample can be identified a majority of the time, then there is a difference.

Two very difference speakers will obviously be able to be identified uniquely.
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#320355 - 08/28/10 12:15 AM Re: M3's horizontally [Re: ClubNeon]
Dave B Offline
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Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 79
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: ClubNeon
Originally Posted By: Dave B
How is it double blind if one person is clearly able to tell a difference when he sets the speaker?

Double blind studies are used to rule out actual differences from prejudice.

If you don't know the how's and why's, here's the short of it.

The "double" means both the tester and testee, are unaware of which sample is being tested. Or if the tester does know there's no way for that information to be communicated to the testee (that means no forms of communication between the two, not even non-verbal forms like body language).

The two samples are presented. The testee is then tasked with identifying each one uniquely after each switch. If he is only correct around 50% of the time, then it is just chance. But if one sample can be identified a majority of the time, then there is a difference.

Two very difference speakers will obviously be able to be identified uniquely.


I understand how double blind studies work. But if the listener is blind and his assistant is rotating the speaker (which is all that is necessary in this application), it's not double blind; it's just blind. The person changing the variable, which in this case is simply the speaker position, is not blind. [Nor does he need to be.] He can't be, unless the speaker is a perfect square.

If it was an A/B speaker test that could be toggled via the use of a single button, that'd be double blind, of course... but that'd introduce positioning/room effects since the presence of one speaker could change the sound of the other slightly.

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#320526 - 08/29/10 07:41 PM Re: M3's horizontally [Re: Dave B]
BlueJays1 Offline
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Registered: 09/19/08
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Harman International uses a automated speaker shuffler for their double-blind listening tests which allows for room effects to be effectively accounted for. This eliminates positional biases in the speakers. They do not fool around in R&D. You will rarely see this much attention to detail taken in blind listening tests of speakers.

Most that claim double-blind tests (review/audio sites and such) are most of the time just blind (the listener).
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