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Forums » General Discussion » What's New At Axiom » Axiom Amplifiers: The Next Generation


#375343  05/06/12 03:53 PM Re: Axiom Amplifiers: The Next Generation [Re: Ya_basta]  
axiomite Registered: 12/06/07 Posts: 7786 Loc: Canada 
Originally Posted By: Powertothepeople We all try to justify superfluous purchases.... No SWMBO no TWMBJ. I just check my bank account.
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#375348  05/06/12 05:40 PM Re: Axiom Amplifiers: The Next Generation [Re: fredk]  
connoisseur Registered: 06/23/07 Posts: 4299 Loc: Sitting down somewhere 
Originally Posted By: fredk Originally Posted By: Powertothepeople We all try to justify superfluous purchases.... No SWMBO no TWMBJ. I just check my bank account.
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#375412  05/07/12 01:40 PM Re: Axiom Amplifiers: The Next Generation [Re: Ya_basta]  
axiomite Registered: 10/05/06 Posts: 6955 Loc: PEI, Canada 
Originally Posted By: Powertothepeople Speaking of tube amps, my friend who's totally def really likes mine. He claims he can hear a difference. I'm confused, but I'm not questioning him. Not because I don't want to, but because I can't do sign because I can't move my fingers. "Why, I can hardly hear it! You'd have to be deaf to hear that." Murray, Flight of the Concords
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#375418  05/07/12 03:38 PM Re: Axiom Amplifiers: The Next Generation [Re: SirQuack]  
aficionado Registered: 08/05/06 Posts: 504 
Originally Posted By: SirQuack Does this design reroute unused power to the other channels needing the power, like Tom's design, that was a nice feature? I know that Ian said that it does act in this way, but I am not understanding how. From the table Ian gave on the first post, on the 1500 series amp, it says that with one channel driven there is 325 Watts into 8 Ohms. That figure remains pretty consistent as more channels are driven into the same load. The previous Axiom amp was able to dump all of the power supply, the whole 1500 Watts when one channel is driven. This seems like a different design that Tom's in this regard. Though with real world material, 325 Watts should be more than enough, for even the most demanding material. 
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#375425  05/07/12 05:58 PM Re: Axiom Amplifiers: The Next Generation [Re: Nick B]  
Axiom Engineer local Registered: 12/18/01 Posts: 275 
The table shows continuous power output figures. This is power that you have available for any length of time that it might be required. What we have not stated is peak or instantaneous power ratings and this is where you are able to momentarily sink far more power into the load than the continuous numbers suggest. This is the power supply "steering" that you are thinking of from the A1400 and the new amplifiers all have this same capability.

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#375427  05/07/12 06:09 PM Re: Axiom Amplifiers: The Next Generation [Re: Cohesion]  
Axiom Engineer local Registered: 12/18/01 Posts: 275 
Hi Mike,
I know that Ian, Amie, and Steve are all hard at work with creating the web pages for these new amplifiers. They will feature more indepth specifications. Is there something specific that you'd like to know? The power ratings that Ian gave in his original post are at 1% THD+N. 
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#375506  05/08/12 11:06 AM Re: Axiom Amplifiers: The Next Generation [Re: Andrew]  
aficionado Registered: 08/05/06 Posts: 504 
Originally Posted By: Andrew The table shows continuous power output figures. This is power that you have available for any length of time that it might be required. What we have not stated is peak or instantaneous power ratings and this is where you are able to momentarily sink far more power into the load than the continuous numbers suggest. This is the power supply "steering" that you are thinking of from the A1400 and the new amplifiers all have this same capability. Yes, but if there are two, three, or four channels driven then there is also 325 Watts continuous power available to each channel. When 5 channels are driven the number drops to 300 Watts available continuously to each channel, since there is only 1500 Watts that can be had out of the wall. My question is: If 1500 Watts can be split up between the channels so that there is approximately 300 Watts continuously given to each channel, then why can't there be 1500 Watts continuously given if there is only one channel driven? Or 750 Watts if only two channels are driven? Was this limited to 325 Watts continuous since there are some speakers that cannot handle more than than on a over a period of time, or am I missing something? I still don't really understand. 
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#375524  05/08/12 01:00 PM Re: Axiom Amplifiers: The Next Generation [Re: Ian]  
axiomite Registered: 06/20/03 Posts: 8488 Loc: Tacoma 
Continuous <> Peak.
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#375568  05/08/12 10:20 PM Re: Axiom Amplifiers: The Next Generation [Re: Nick B]  
Axiom Engineer local Registered: 12/18/01 Posts: 275 
Originally Posted By: Nick B Yes, but if there are two, three, or four channels driven then there is also 325 Watts continuous power available to each channel. When 5 channels are driven the number drops to 300 Watts available continuously to each channel, since there is only 1500 Watts that can be had out of the wall. My question is: If 1500 Watts can be split up between the channels so that there is approximately 300 Watts continuously given to each channel, then why can't there be 1500 Watts continuously given if there is only one channel driven? Or 750 Watts if only two channels are driven? Was this limited to 325 Watts continuous since there are some speakers that cannot handle more than than on a over a period of time, or am I missing something? I still don't really understand. Ok, I can see where you are having trouble. It's a little difficult because there are two factors at play here. On the one hand we have this large power supply that can supply lots of "power" to how ever many channels need it. On the other we have to look at the amplifiers themselves. By definition, an amplifier cannot swing or deliver more than the available DC power supply voltage to a load (speaker). Once we take losses, including the amplifier's efficiency, into account, the available voltage swing is reduced even further. It's this voltage swing that determines the maximum, continuous output power that the amplifier can deliver into a given load, assuming that we have unlimited current available. So, even though we might be able to deliver 1500 watts from the power supply, the amplifier is limited by the rail voltage. Time for some quick math: Let's assume P is power, V is voltage, I is current, and R is resistance. I'm going to leave the complex reactive speaker impedance out of the discussion and assume the load is purely resistive! P = V x I From Ohm's Law we know that I = V/R Substituting this equation into the first equation we get: P = (V x V)/R In the A1500 we are running +/85Vdc rails, which means the peak to peak voltage is 170Vdc. However, we can only swing voltage in one direction or the other at a given time. This means we need to use our peak voltage, which is 85Vdc. Power is usually, somewhat erroneously, specified in watts RMS, so we need to convert peak voltage into RMS voltage. To do this we multiply the peak voltage by the square root of 2 (0.707). Therefore, Vrms = Vpeak x 0.707. In the A1500 this gives 85 x 0.707 = 60.095 Vrms. Going back to our original power equation, our maximum output power into 8ohms is: P = (60.095 x 60.095)/8 = 451.23 watts But wait a second, this assumes that the entire amplifier is 100% efficient, which it's not. We need to apply the approximate efficiency to the RMS voltage, and this is 90% in the A1500. This gives an actual RMS voltage swing of V = 60.095 x 0.9 = 54.0855 Redoing our power calculation now gives: P = (54.0855 x 54.0855)/8 = 365.66 watts So this is the maximum single channel output power, no matter how much current is available from the power supply. Why does Ian's table state 325 watts for one channel? Because we're still in the preproduction stages of these designs and we wanted to be conservative until the final numbers are in. I hope that was not too hard to follow and helps to clarify the continuous power ratings. 
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#375569  05/08/12 10:30 PM Re: Axiom Amplifiers: The Next Generation [Re: Ian]  
shareholder in the making Registered: 05/03/03 Posts: 18044 Loc: NoVA 
So one does wonder, then, how this would relate to the A14008's maximum single channel output power.
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