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#43812 - 04/29/04 07:57 AM Wide speaker placement, problems with soundstage?
Stimpie Offline

Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 1
I would like to cram an Epic 60 HTS into a 8' by 16' room. I know this set is a little overkill for this room size, but I am planning to move to a bigger place and also want to be ahead of the then included WAF
The problem now is that I have no option but to put the m60 speakers in the far corners of the room (about 14' apart) and put my couch in the centre against the opposite wall. This means that I am going to have a relatively very wide front speaker placement, since I only sit about 7' from the TV screen. In order to point directy to the Main listening position on the centre of the couch, the speakers would therefore already have a toe-in of about 45 degrees.

Concerning this situation, I have two questions:
1) What kind of soundstage can I expect from this configuration, or is no decent soundstage possible at all due to the large toe-in angle?
2) Does the centre speaker contribute to the soundstage, e.g. will it make a difference if I use the VP100 or VP150?

Any comments are greatly appreciated!


#43813 - 04/29/04 09:30 AM Re: Wide speaker placement, problems with soundstage?
ravi_singh Offline

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1351
Loc: Montreal

i have an epic80 in a room that is about 10 by 12. it sounds great.

1 - soundstage is great, no problems at all. even when the sound is very loud or very soft. in fact, i used to have M22's and the M80's do give better sound stage despite the lack of space. I have them about 7 feet apart, 1 foot from the wall behind them. Toe in is not as bad as you think, the speakers point out to either side of a two seat couch place directly between the two on the back wall.

2 - the center does help make the front soundstage seamless and locks the dialog to the center. I have heard the VP100, very good. I have the VP150, worth the upgrade. More neutral, fuller sound.

#43814 - 04/29/04 05:52 PM Re: Wide speaker placement, problems with soundstage?
audiofan Offline

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 203
I have M60 and my room is 12x14. I place M60 about 9 feet apart and angle speaker to listening position at 60 degree. They sound very good to me ( i seat about 10 feet from tv). I am not an experience listener, but i can feel it sounds great. I wish i can sit about 14 feet away from tv.

By the way, i have vp-100 . It sound clear and loud. One problem is that I can't put center speaker at the same level of main speakers (ideal position), but it's ok to me.

#43815 - 04/29/04 11:51 PM Re: Wide speaker placement, problems with soundstage?
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10623
John, welcome. As you may have observed, the most common suggestion is that the main speakers be separated by about as much as the sitting distance. If you can't narrow your separation to less than 14', you should nevertheless be able to get a reasonably good soundstage, and it would be because of the relatively sharp toe-in to point the tweeters at your ears, not despite it. The use of a center channel speaker would help fill the middle on movies and using DPLII on 2-channel material would have a similar effect. The VP150/VP100 question has been discussed here fairly frequently, but I've heard neither and am uncertain as to whether the 150 has significantly better dispersion characteristics. As I've frequently noted, I prefer a vertical center speaker, which generally would be the M2 in the Axiom lineup.

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

#43816 - 04/30/04 02:38 PM Re: Wide speaker placement, problems with soundstage?
jlsylve Offline

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 1

I have the M60s and originally had them about 12 feet apart, toed in slightly, with the listening position about 10 or 11 feet back. In stereo (i.e., no center channel) there was a significant "hole-in-the-middle" effect resulting in a marginal sound stage. Per Alan, increasing the toe-in wasn't a good solution. I think you really need to be at least as far back from the speakers as they are apart from each other to get a good sound stage. A little farther back doesn't hurt. I'm sure others have had different experiences, so it's just my opinion. When I moved the speakers about 10 feet apart and the couch back to about 12 feet from the speakers the improvement was dramatic. Having the center channel on improved the situation, but in my opinion it was only masking a problem. I personally wouldn't recommend the M60s for your current situation. I don't beleive you will get the most out of a very good speaker.

#43817 - 04/30/04 04:30 PM Re: Wide speaker placement, problems with soundstage?
Capn_Pickard Offline

Registered: 03/09/04
Posts: 1056
Loc: Arlington, VA (NOVA)
How far would everyone reccomend the speakers be apart if I were to be sitting approximately 15 feet away from them?

Is there a ratio that I should follow? I seem to remember seeing it, but forget where.

#43818 - 04/30/04 04:31 PM Re: Wide speaker placement, problems with soundstage?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16437
Loc: Ben Lomond, California
15 feet, give or take a foot or so.
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.


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