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#56047 - 07/29/04 12:42 PM New and need help/advice
PaulF Offline

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 2
Loc: Thousand Oaks, California
Hi all,
I am upgrading to a all new 5.1 HTS after 15 years of living with a decent sony all-in-one stereo system. The power and processing for this system will come from a Harmon Kardon Citation 16 amp and a Denon 3805 AVR. The 16 will relieve the 3805 of its duties of powering the mains freeing it up to handle processing and powering just the surrounds and possible 2nd Zone. I have a large room (24'x24') with high vaulted ceilings, windows and openings into other rooms. I have narrowed my speaker search down to a short list: Paradigm Monitor series (Monitor 11 mains, CC370 center and ADP370 surrounds, Monitor Audio Silver series (S10 mains, SLCR center and Sfx surrounds)or possible the Axiom Epic 80 system. These would all be paired with a Sunfire sub. Outside of discussing Axiom for just a second, does anyone have any input/experiences to share one the system I'm proposing?

Now back to Axiom. Please, I have read all the reviews and the wonderful owner testimonials and do not need to be convinced that these are good speakers - I need to know the more important question of will they be right for me in my configuration/room? This is such a subjective question that makes it impossible for anyone else to answer - hence my dilema: I can and will demo both of the other brands in my house at NO cost - I have listened to them (and many others in narrowing down my search) and like their sound with the Denon - but that was in the stores setting. Now I want to audition them in my home - the store that is selling me the Denon has agree to do so (and help with the set-up) without charge. I cannot even do an in-store listening of the Axioms! I know about the free shipping and 30 day trial, but what all the reviews gloss over about that point is that it is free only in one direction! I would have to pay over $100 to send them back if they weren't the best fit of the 3 systems I'm considering! I also understand that Axiom's business model would save me money over the other manufacturers, but that would only be IF I liked them better and kept them! I am not a gambling sort and I like to spend a little more up front and keep things a long time (as evidenced by my last system). I tried to find someone in the local area (los Angeles) who might have the Epic 80 system for me to listen to - per Brent's (at Axiom) advice in this user forum, but saw only about 10 users listed in all of California - and none of thim had the Epic 80 system. This doesn't help and in fact causes some uneasiness considering this state has a population and buying power larger than most countries. Does anyone know of anyone in the LA area with such a system? Any other suggestions to help me decide????

#56048 - 07/29/04 12:47 PM Re: New and need help/advice
ringmir Offline

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 619
Loc: boston
check here

It's a long thread, but I suggest sending a private message to people in your area.
[black]-"The further we go and older we grow, the more we know, the less we show."[/black]

#56049 - 07/29/04 01:03 PM Re: New and need help/advice
denver Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/26/04
Posts: 66
Loc: ummmm, Denver!
If you can't find a pure Epic 80 system to audition in the L.A. area, look for M60's, VP150, and QS8's, and that should give you a close enough sense of whether you like Axiom speakers sufficiently to order the Epic 80, test it with the others, and if you do prefer the others, pay the $100 shipping to return the Axioms.

#56050 - 07/29/04 01:49 PM Re: New and need help/advice
tomtuttle Offline

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8488
Loc: Tacoma
Hi Paul, welcome.

Excellent points, and honestly stated.

Axiom's Alan Lofft has mentioned that the timbre of the M60 is very similar to the M80, but that the M80 is more capable in larger rooms. Board regular Spiffnme has M60's in LA; he may be willing to help you. His system would be representative, if not exact.

Just because nobody has volunteered an M80 system for listening in LA does not mean they don't exist; I'm certain that the board represents a mere fraction of the Axiom customer base, and of that, not everyone is comfortable being a spokesperson.

The Paradigm and Monitor Audio brands are often compared to Axiom. I'm sure a forum search would reveal some relevant threads.

Your system should be fantastic. Best wishes, and enjoy the journey.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

#56051 - 07/29/04 02:32 PM Re: New and need help/advice
Ajax Offline

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6331
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Brent's (denver) suggestion is probably the best idea. Spiffnme could give you a good idea of the Axiom sound with his M60s/VP150/QS8s. He works for IMAX, though, and has been crazy busy for the last 6 weeks. However, he has posted some in the last couple of days, so maybe things are slacking off a little. You'd have to PM him and ask.

The M60s are reputed to sound very similar, with the 80s able to play louder, and deeper into the frequency range. Should you like the sound of his M60s, or if you are unable to get a chance to listen to anyone's Axioms, you might then order the M80s alone. If you don't like them then you only have to pay return shipping on 2 speakers instead of 6.

While some of us own, and we all respect, the Axiom subs, a number of us prefer HSU subwoofers or SV subwoofers (SVS). One of the great things about the Axiom folks is that they offer a 10% discount if you order ANY 5 items. (i.e, 2 speakers, two stands, and 1 cord. OR, any 5 speakers. If you ordered the M80s, and you liked them, as long as you ordered the VP150 and the 2 QS8s (and the Axiom sub, if you chose) within the 30 day trial period of the M80s, you'd qualify for the 10% discount.

In addition, if you ordered your speakers from the Axiom Factory Outlet (All speakers guaranteed sonically perfect, but possibly having minor cosmetic flaws), you would qualify for an additional 5% discount. I bought all my Axioms (other than my QS8s) from the Factory Outlet, and am quite content with them. No one would notice the flaws unless they were studiously looking for them.

You should not be afraid to call the people at Axiom, explain your situation (room size, etc.) and ask their advice. They are customer service oriented and will not try to talk you into anything you don't need or want. There are some amazing customer service stories on this forum such as this, and this.

I wouldn't be put off be not being able to find a lot of Axioms in California. Quantity does NOT equate to quality. I have no qualms about saying that you would be hard pressed to find superior speakers in this price range (though there are those which are comparable). However, as one regular here at the forum recently said ".......the more you read about speakers, the more you realize how subjective (the topic) is..." One man's "WOW" is another man" "UGH."

I've never heard the other speakers you are considering, so unfortunately I can't offer any opinion on them. Maybe others here have heard them and will be able to comment for you.

I know it's not easy making decisions like this. Just do your best, and good luck.

P.S. I believe you only have to pay return shipping to Buffalo, not all the way to Canada. Axiom maintains a depot there for returned orders. You should check with Axiom to be sure I'm not mistaken about this, or any other info I've passed along. I know it's hard to believe, but I have been wrong once in my life. (OK, TWICE!)

Edited by Ajax (07/29/04 02:44 PM)

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

#56052 - 07/29/04 09:56 PM Re: New and need help/advice
Ray3 Offline

Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2854
Loc: Rochester, NY
Hi Paul. Ajax is right on with his comments. As far as an audition goes, If the thread ringmir pointed you towards doesn't yield any results, drop Amie an email and she might be able to set you up out there with an audition.

#56053 - 07/30/04 12:19 AM Re: New and need help/advice
PaulF Offline

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 2
Loc: Thousand Oaks, California
Thank you all for your kind words and advice. Thanks also for pretending not to notice my pidgen english typos - I was in a hurry this morning and didn't have time to go over my post.

I will try all the suggestions given.

Ringmir - that post is where I got the info on the California owners, but I admit I only looked under the California section not through all the pages themselves - I'll go through them now.

Ajax - You are right, Axiom indicated that they would need to only go to NY, but that was still $107.

Ray3 - Who is Amie? Should I look them up in a members listing somewhere?

I am aware of the Factory Outlet store and that there are some discounts for multiple purchases - I would definately take advantage of both!

I want to compliment you all for your detailed and nice replies - it shows this is a good group of people drawn together by a good product from a company with good people and support. I have been checking out the Axiom website from time to time for about a year and have called and sent emails and I agree with your statements about their friendly and helpful people. I subscribe to and read the newsletter and Alans' articles. I also read the AVS forum and the Home Theatre forum and try to read all the articles and reviews I can from the many other excellent sources online. If anyone else reads this thread and would like to chime in - especially with any thoughts on the Citation 16, the 3805, the other speakers, how to improve my room etc. - I am all ears!

Thanks again,

#56054 - 07/30/04 12:41 AM Re: New and need help/advice
Ajax Offline

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6331
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio

Thank you for the compliments. Generally, we're always glad to help nice folks who come by looking for information.

Amie is Amie Colquhoun (Scottish spelling of Cahoon). She is the wife of Ian Colquhoun, founder and owner of Axiom, and our resident angel with a marvelous sense of humor. She's a very nice person who will be glad to help you any way she can.

I've got a 3805 on the way. I've been trying to read the manual online, but I need someone to translate the English translation into English. Whew!

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

#56055 - 07/30/04 04:35 PM Re: New and need help/advice
BigWill Offline

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
Sorry I missed this one Paul (I was out in Temecula drinking wine the past few days ), but I have M60s, et al in Corona. If you feel like driving out here, you're more than welcome.


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