Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Speaker Comparison - M60Ti vs M60v4

In the past i have used Mono mode to compare speakers including the side by side test. I've read about the benefits and drawback of using mono vs. stereo and i can see why both can be important. The side by side placement thing is already part of these listening tests so that aspect is somewhat moot (one speaker of each was placed inside then outside of the other so the pairs are staggered).
Putting them side by side, using one speaker each, and at distance, helps to eliminate reviewer preference by knowing which speaker is playing if the reviewer is too close and can tell L and R apart. That wasn't the case here either as our pre-tests observations showed although the stereo image shifted slightly, the reviewers still could not tell which set of speakers were playing at any time.
Using the side by side, one speaker only, mono method also reduces the assessment of soundstage IMO.
It has also been argued in the past that listening in mono is not something a person would normally do with the speakers, so maybe it has uses for testing purposes but it isn't a realistic listening situation then either. This is the sticking point about presenting observations of any kind. Someone will always try to poke holes in the method that leads to the observations, but there's always holes in the methods. Nothing has 100% certainty (it is why science has the concept of 95% confidence intervals). So you present your methods and know any common shortfalls of the method but also the reasons why the method was chosen.
In our case, given the number of speakers to test, we went with the "realistic scenario listening" method:

• Here are the two rooms in which we hear these speakers.
• Here is where they are (relatively) typically placed. We listen in direct mode (main floor) or direct and DD surround (media room).
• We have three listeners/users/reviewers. One female, two male. All are experienced in having done A/B listening tests before and know how to listen critically for certain details. Two are very familiar with the test songs, one is not.
• The measurements taken with LARSA are from an older iPad. There are likely limitations with the accuracy of the graphs produced.
• All nearby house appliances (furnace, fridge) were turned off during sound sweeps and listening sessions.
• Other parts of the method and songs list were provided in previous threads, etc. etc.

On that note, it can be stated that as the speakers were swapped in an out, they WERE put in the positions of the other test speakers as a quick test to see if such a small change in the placement in the room made a difference. It did not make a significant different in judging the overall character of each speaker but i didn't have time to take new LARSA measures for every single location (i have one LARSA left to take which is the LFR in the media room).
Additionally, the placement of these speakers in each room was based on where they would normally be located during everyday use (the realistic scenario method). Although there is some room to move the speakers left and right and to a lesser extent some distance away from the wall (on the main floor), the positions in the media room are much more restricted to two distances from the L and R walls and the same distance from the back wall. Even IF this limitation caused a change in speaker response, there's nothing we can do about it. I can't move the LFR two feet into the living room because now they are sticking out so far into the room they look ridiculous and are somewhat in the way of the walking path toward a chair. I can't move the Tannoys two feet more to the right or they would be in front of a doorway, etc.

Keep in mind though that we have two very different rooms in undertaking the listening sessions so it becomes hard to argue that both these rooms are solely responsible for adding some sound character that makes the Axioms (or Tannoys, ADS) sound like they were observed rather than what someone else has reported. The M60 V4 had the same tonal recessed character as the LFR880s. This was independently reported from all three reviewers so it is easy to conclude that this sound character belongs to the Axiom v4 speakers and is not an artifact of the room.

As mentioned in the other thread, the three reviewers have done A/B tests several, if not many, times before. Having three people report the same observation gives greater credibility to the results than coming from a single person doing listening tests without a measuring parameter (such as LARSA) and preferably coupled with an A/B test.

In the example you provided on the M5 new locations, you had a difference in LARSA, but did you setup an A/B listening test with one speaker in location A and the second identical speaker in location B and undertake a listening test blind, and before you looked at any LARSA data? (looking at the data in advance would skew your perception that there must be a sound difference and then match it to what you saw in LARSA). We did our listening tests first, and i did the LARSA sweeps last.

There is no argument that moving a speaker to a different location in the room will provide something of a different frequency response, but validating the perceived changes to audible observations is harder to prove without the closest you can get to an objective listening test. I remember back when Totem was selling little cones to put on top of their speakers stating it focused the sound and the high end became smooth, clear, or whatever (https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/beak-tweak.21904/). People actually bought these things. It is so easy to have done an A/B test to know it was a pile of nonsense, but how about an A/B test using three people, with two speakers, one with and one without the cone and in two different rooms? Follow that up with a LARSA sweep and you have several major points with multiple observations to prove the observations are likely real. I suspect some people will read this review of the Ti vs V4 and think it's bunk, but think about the effort put into these listening tests compared to what the average Joe does at home and then reports on the forums.

Unless you have specifically done an A/B instant switching listening test with the Ti vs. V4, the human audio memory is just way too short to recall the differences. During our surround sound testing, i had to stop the sound, change the cables for the VP150 to the VP180, then quick switch the M60 Ti for the V4. This took less than 30 seconds yet it was hard to hear that more recessed character on the V4 in this method vs. just using the A/B switch and M60s alone during the stereo pair tests. If i never had a speaker switcher, i would have thought the V4 sounded just as good if not better than the Ti (i do believe the tweeter does sound smoother).
Hands down, you NEED an A/B switch to REALLY hear these differences with any accuracy and confidence in observations.