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#101294 - 07/04/05 08:30 PM Anyone buy a new GM?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
Anyone buy a new GM? I couldn’t pass it up. I got $12,000 off the MSRP of a new truck. I hadn’t planned to buy a new truck until next spring, but at this price, I couldn’t resist. Plus, my Dodge was getting dirty….lol

And they extended it until the 1st of August if you missed out.

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#101295 - 07/04/05 08:41 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
And it appears Ford Motor Co. and Daimler-Chrysler are going to join this party. A LOT of vehicles will be sold in July.

As a dealer, it does make me wonder if this is going to be a longer term idea - like "low rates" have become.

The downside ? Used vehicle values are dropping pretty fast, but if this becomes the new way to buy cars, long term, people will save a LOT of $$$$.
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#101296 - 07/04/05 09:09 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
that is great Mike, my wife and I went through some of the lots yesterday....Tahoe's in the 20k's, not a bad deal...My wife is considering a Trailblazer.
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#101297 - 07/04/05 10:16 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
Craig,
The price of new vehicles has become ridiculous. I never buy on credit or pay MSRP, but still, way too much in the end. The prices have exceeded the inflation rate by a large margin. I have a three year rotation where I buy a new vehicle, and set aside a few bucks every month to pay the difference when I sell the current vehicle. It keeps me in a new rig, under warranty, and I get to try new rigs out.

It would appear that even with the cash I saved on the new rig, like you said, used vehicle prices are plummeting. I hadn’t figured that until after I bought the dam thing. So my net savings is not as much as I had thought. Oh well…..it’s only money. At least I got a sunroof this time.

You’re a dealer? What make? I’m assuming Chevy seeing how you have a C5.

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#101298 - 07/04/05 10:17 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
What's the special they are running that is the cause for the big discounts?

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#101299 - 07/04/05 10:22 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
My girlfriend is considering a Trailblazer. Nice little rigs. Those Equanoxes are pretty nice too. I like the AWD they have. I wanted a Silverado SS, but they didn’t have one, so I ended up with a Sierra Denali. Too bad it has a Bose stereo though. I’m going to have to pull it out just out of principle – no matter how good it sounds.
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#101300 - 07/04/05 10:23 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
If it makes you feel better, cars have had lower inflation than health care, housing, taxes, and fuel....

I am a partner in a Ford Lincoln-Mercury and two Dodge Chrysler Jeep dealerships. My main biz is in financial services working with dealerships, including a lot of GM stores. The Vette is now a C-6, BTW.

My work car is a Ford 500 - and my wife drives an Excursion Diesel.
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#101301 - 07/04/05 10:25 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
GM is selling all vehicles (except Vettes…..dammit!!) at the employee price. Plus, some dealers are also giving the rebates that have been available for the past few months as well. GM had to do something to get sales margins up or suffer massive stock losses.
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#101302 - 07/04/05 10:26 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
For years, The Car makers have allowed employees to pay less than dealer cost for a vehicle. The dealer who sells the employee gets a flat % on that car from the manufacturer.

They have expanded this to everyone on everything BUT the Vette.

From the consumer's point of view, this is a great way to buy - no haggling, just a cheap price.
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#101303 - 07/04/05 10:29 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
In reply to:

My work car is a Ford 500





If I were to get a new car right now that is what I would be looking at.........beautiful car imo.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#101304 - 07/04/05 10:32 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
Oh, that’s right….sorry.

I’m still waiting to see if the Z06 will come as a roadster before I get my name on the list. I got a notice on their prices, but no mention of a ragtop option. 65K and change. Not a bad deal considering the competition it’s gunna stomp all over. 3.7 second 0-60 and in first gear……it’ll be an animal!!

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#101305 - 07/04/05 10:32 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Agreed - It has grown on me in the 8 months and 15,000 miles I have owned it. AWD, 24.5 MPG, LOTS of room, quiet ... and did I mention AWD ? - all for $27K ...
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#101306 - 07/04/05 10:35 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
I think the hard part on the Z-06 will be GETTING one. Most dealers seem to want the first one for himself. I think they are planning on 1500 per year. With 5000 dealers, the odds don't look so good ...
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#101307 - 07/05/05 05:43 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
rcvecc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 608
Loc: east haven ct
i bought a new truck last jan at 8800 off sticker and just last week i got another one at about 12000 off sticker-i dont know how much markup is in those things but im sure the dealer still made out good-i think most of their money comes from service-btw did you check out the new charger-nice looking-mid size-inexpensive speeding ticket machine

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#101308 - 07/05/05 03:10 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16268
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I had a Ford 500 rental when I was in Seattle last month. A large step up from the standard Taurus -- very quiet, pleasant ride, plenty of room, and a cavernous trunk. Not my kind of car, but I'd rent one again.
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#101309 - 07/05/05 09:23 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
Craig,

Considering you are a partner in a Ford dealership and seem to know something about vehicles, I'm going to step out on an auto conundrum branch and see if you can help a fellow liberal(just kidding)and or Axiom owner. Before I ask for your advice, I'm going to admit that I am of the working class, and I have children which are pretty much grown. They pretty much drain my pocket book, at times. My son, who is in college, drives an old Ford Explorer, since I can't afford to purchase him something new, wholesale pricing or not. This vehicle served him adequately until now. I'll put it bluntly. When he turns the ignition key, it turns over but sometimes it starts and sometimes it doesn't. I have had the charging and fuel systems checked out by a local mechanic, but, yet the problem persists. Everything was found to be operation correctly. I phoned a local Ford dealership technician and he said it's probably the fuel pump, which is in the gas tank. As you have probably guessed, it always starts fine at the mechanics, but once it's in the driveway it rears its ugly head once more. I think this vehicle is haunted. What do you think?

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#101310 - 07/05/05 09:42 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Does the vehicle act up in certain types of weather ? Does it do it if it is damp out or does it matter ?
_________________________
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#101311 - 07/05/05 10:04 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
Weather doesn't seem to have any affect on this predicament.

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#101312 - 07/05/05 10:05 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Littleb - I know a lot of people who think I am a liberal, too. When one is a Libertarian, one usually aggravates BOTH sides of the political spectrum, depending on the topic.

I feel for your son - When I went to college, my parents gave me a ride to school, and that was it. No tuition $$$, no room and board ... nothing. I know what being broke feels like.

Regarding your vehicle, the tech is probably right - the fuel sending unit in the gas tank is probably the culprit.

You said "old" Explorer - Ford has sold millions of those things - I bet you can find a "new" tank w/sending unit at a "junkyard" for VERY little $$$. Then find, if you can, a corner mechanic - around here they are still available - and you should be ok for very little $$$.

The "junkyards" BTW, are even computerized now, and if they don't have the right part there, they often can find one.

Another idea is to stop by a NAPA, or similar parts place, some of those guys are miracle workers - I have seen people get their vehicle "well" again with an additive to clean the system out ... which would even be better than the "junkyard" solution.

I hope this helps !
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#101313 - 07/05/05 11:38 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
Hardest part about changing the fuel pump is draining the fuel from the tank, you usually drink some. Then there’s all that road grime that falls in your face and down your shirt when you take the straps off…..not a fun job, but just about anyone can do it.

But, it could also be the fuel filter or pressure regulator, or ignition related. Pumps usually go out cold turkey. What year is it? Did the tech run it for codes? If it’s fuel related and the PCM stores fault codes, it’ll store a code for low fuel pressure. The F/A ratio will also be off if it’s a fuel starvation problem. This will show up in the exhaust sensor as whacked A/F ratio. Again, anther code. But if it’s fairly old, the codes will be erased each time the ignition is turned off.

Send me a PM with all the particulars and I’ll give you some ideas. No, I’m not a service tech. I’m just a hot rodder that likes to make things go fast.

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#101314 - 07/06/05 12:09 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
mdrew ... good stuff. If there is anything I can do to help you help get this vehicle "right", please ask ...

Finding a tech who will just fix things seems to be a lost art.... bummer
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#101315 - 07/06/05 12:51 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
That is not BS Craig…..I get so frustrated when I have to diagnose the problem because the “technician” told me nothing is wrong because there is no error code. If no code exists, then the customer MUST be imagining the symptoms. The ABS would go out on my 03 Ram when I was in rainy conditions, the trouble light would come on, an obnoxious beep, the cruise control would go ape [censored] and take control of the truck (either 100% throttle or 0% depending on it’s mood at the time). The first time this happened, it scared the crap out me. After a few more times, I started to find it amusing. Three trips to the dealer, every time they told me there was nothing wrong. – No error codes stored.

I did a little research and downloaded the speed sensing circuitry of this truck, and found out that the speed sensor compares rear axle speed to transfer case speed and if there is a difference, it kicks out the cruise control and disables the ABS. I bought a speed sensor for the rear diff, changed it and that did no good. The next step was the trace the wiring to the sensors. I found a small rub spot on the sensor wire that had exposed bare wire. When it would get wet, it would short to ground, disabling the cruise control and ABS circuits. This took me a whole two hours of research and actual trouble shooting. Problem fixed.

Then I started feeling vibration in the seat when coming to a stop. Every one knows that this is symptom of the rear drums or rotors being out of balance, or warped. Took the truck in. Service reps took the truck for ride, and of course they didn’t feel anything – two different times to the dealer. Screw it, I pulled the rotors, had them turned, popped them back on and changed the pads. Problem solved.

I could go on and on. But nothing was wrong…….

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#101316 - 07/06/05 01:09 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
I have an unusual perspective, being a silent partner in the dealerships, and also doing financial services with auto dealers. I get the same "red carpet" treatment as does anyone else who enters the ahllowed halls of the service department.

All I can say is : I feel your pain. Finding a mechanic who will actually find something through hard work just seems to not happen in today's world.
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#101317 - 07/06/05 02:29 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
twodan19 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 624
Loc: Pembroke, Massachusetts
traded my 99 gmc extend cab about 3 months ago for an 05, 2500hd extended cab. with rebates and 1k towards the purchase of a plow, wasn't a bad deal for me. the 2500 is so much more truck than the 1500. however, i did step down from an slt to an sle with cloth seats, and no bose radio. just waiting for snow so i can do the two lots here at work, and drive at home.

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#101318 - 07/06/05 03:46 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
I've got one.
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I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#101319 - 07/06/05 07:17 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
curtis Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 1501
Loc: Manhattan Beach, CA
a friend of mine bought a new Suburban. He found out that the new discounts are just starting points....just as if they were sticker prices....and that you can still work on getting a lower price from there. But it is difficult since most people are just taking the discounts and not negotiating further, so he spent a lot of time working on the dealer....more than usual he said....but got even a better price.

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#101320 - 07/07/05 07:37 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
freesey Offline
local

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 248
Loc: London, Ontario
Way too much? Are you crazy mang! Its the cheapest its ever been for a GM product. Thats why they offer 4 years with 0% interest on vehicles, their stocks are now poop and they need to sell sell sell; even I could afford a new GM right now
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#101321 - 07/07/05 07:46 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
freesey Offline
local

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 248
Loc: London, Ontario
Good God, I cant believe you had those problems, id crap myself if all of a sudden I was driving and the throttle just jumped, specially in a truck, the torque would frighten me
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#101322 - 07/09/05 04:24 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
It appears GM has extended to offer until August 1st, I've also heard that Ford and Chrysler will be offering similar deals.

Randy

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M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#101323 - 07/09/05 05:06 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
Update city on the Fix Or Repair Daily Explorer. My son drove to work, about 20 miles out of town. The darn thing wouldn't start at quitting time and gasoline is leaking from the undercarriage. It may be time to look for a Honda.

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#101324 - 07/09/05 05:24 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
littleb - As someone who underwrites extended warranties for every car maker you can think of, I can assure you that ALL cars break down. They get old. And each car company has some that go 300,000 miles with nothing going bad, while others have more problems.

A good friend of mine just dumped Honda because of some problems. He is now with VW.

I get to see the repair data on literally thousands of cars each year - you would be amazed at how close ALL the companies are in repair costs per vehicle. Well, leave Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Cadillac, Ferrari, etc ... out of that ...

The BEST advice I can give you, look for a vehicle which is front wheel drive, rather than AWD. Get something with about 30,000 miles on it - usually you pay about 1/2 of the NET price of new, or less.

Then Buy a 100,000 mile warranty. It is the cheapest method I know for getting a good vehicle.


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#101325 - 07/09/05 08:11 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
rcvecc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 608
Loc: east haven ct
ive learned that a vehicle is only as good as its warranty

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#101326 - 07/11/05 12:48 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
YMMV, but Japanese cars are just more reliable in my experience. It's going on in my household now...I have a Subaru, my wife has an Audi, and we've had many more problems with her car. That is just one sample of many, along with things like consumer reports yearly April car issue, that leads me to feel this way.

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#101327 - 07/12/05 09:42 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
littleb Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 1235
Loc: Moorhead, Minnesota/US
I thought I would give everyone an update on the Ford Explorer. Because my mechanic couldn't find anything wrong with the vehicle, my son drove it to work, about 20 miles out of town. And lo and behold, it wouldn't start on the return trip and he noticed gas dripping from the undercarriage. The next day he tried to start it again, sparks were flying out of the engine compartment. The vehicle is again towed and upon inspection all the wiring harnesses in the engine compartment are melted. The mechanics inspecting it were heard to say, that they 'have never seen anything like this, ever.' I think it's TOAST! My son told me he would never buy another Ford, and I can't really blame him. This vehicle went from suitable transportation to a pile of garbage in about 2 weeks. It's almost as if it had committed suicide.

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#101328 - 07/12/05 12:03 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
Every manufacture makes a lemon or two. I’ve owned European, Japanese and one or more from the big three. I’ve had problems with every one of them too. If you think about how many moving parts and electronic gizmos that are needed to make a vehicle run, it’s actually pretty amazing that they even start, let alone move down the road. I certainly wouldn’t put any manufacture on the “never buy again” list because I had problems with one of their vehicles.

As far as the problems your son had with the explorer, it would be interesting to see what caused the initial problem. Sparks and leaking fuel is a very bad thing. I suspect the manufacture would like to know what cased that too. I pretty sure they’d hate to see a class action suit against them because a few thousand explorers blew up and killed some families.

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#101329 - 07/12/05 03:38 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
I don't know, a problem that bad would put me off of a manufacturer. I don't care if it might happen with another car, it DID happen with that one!
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#101330 - 07/12/05 04:29 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
but you don't know what caused it. a previous owner may have done some "tweaking" that lead to a failure. just like construction, code books are there for a reason, to ensure that the installation is done correctly and keep homes from burning to the ground. new vehicles are extremely complicated. even the wrong spark plug can make an engine miss, or not start at all. the electronic ignition reads resistance across the plug, which even though the champion plug is the exact same plug as an AC plug, the resistance is different causing the ignition to read an error which will put it into a limp mode. While I’m talking about spark plugs, I picked up 15 HP while dyno tuning a 406 CID small block chevy last year by increasing the gap to .045 from .035. from 605 hp to 620 hp. I wouldn’t have believed it, or even tried it if I didn’t feel like experimenting. But the point I’m trying to make, is that engines are not as simple as they were 20 years ago. A very small “tweak” can lead to very significant changes, both pro and con.
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#101331 - 07/12/05 07:08 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
In that case, I wouldn't purchase from that dealer or take it to them for service any more. If it's leaking gas, they should have caught it. Period. Or kept it until they did.
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#101332 - 07/12/05 07:33 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
As a dealer, I would say the problem here is the ....... dealer.

Too many dealers today ONLY consider how much profit a service department makes. In other words, they lost the meaning of "service"

In the extended warranty business, I have had dealers call me complaining that a repair was denied due to customer abuse. Recently, a customer put a snowplow on a Ford 1/2 ton, which had no plow prep package.

This voids the warranty - but the dealer wanted me to get a $4000 engine repair covered. Out of that $4000, $2000 was profit. When I offered to cover the dealer's COST of $2000 of the repair, with no profit, in order to help the customer, I received some SERIOUS abuse.

littleb, IF this helps, I can assure you we would have found the problem and fixed the Explorer peoperly.

For everyone else - some food for thought. When you shop a dealer, do you ask to see the service department ? Or do you only shop price ?
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#101333 - 07/12/05 08:31 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
FordPrefect Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 1334
Loc: Ancaster, Ontario
I always check out the service department. In the long run it can make or break my relationship with the dealer. The initial purchase price is only one component of my overall cost.

One thing I can never understand is why don't more dealers take the "long view"? If they make me happy during the life of the car I WILL come back and buy another one. In fact there is one dealer I have bought cars from for the last 14 years. Price is only part of the reason, the way I am treated during warranty claims and getting good service on the vehicle are the primary reasons for my loyalty.

Pretty basic really, just make people feel good about the purchase and they'll be more likely to come bcak.
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#101334 - 07/12/05 08:44 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Ajax Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6250
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I learned something, one time, when I hung around the dealer and watched him work on my car. I was in the waiting room, and watched, intermittently, through a window in the door leading to the service bays.

When I pulled my car in for service, I noticed a sign saying something like "Any part of an hour will count as a full hour of labor," or something similar. Being naive, I assumed, and I wager most folks assumed, that meant that if the mechanic worked on my car for an hour and a half, I'd be charged for two hours. OK, I'll buy that.

As I watched, I noticed that the mechanic worked on my car for 15 minutes, then a different car for 15 minutes, another for 15 minutes, and a 4th for 15 minutes. This went on for 4 hours. When my car was done, I was charged for 4 hours of labor, and so were 3 other poor suckers. 4 hours of work; 16 hours of billing charged. Nice business.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#101335 - 07/12/05 09:44 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

If I would have seen crap like that going on I would have refused to pay all but one hour of labor.Where I have bought the last 5 cars the service dept is of top quality.I once had a map senser go out in a Ford Contour that was not cover by the extended warranty.Well the manager of the of the dealership paid half of the cost and I paid the other.It's things like this that keeps me going back to them.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#101336 - 07/12/05 10:10 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
I agree, right there I would have asked to speak to the owner of the dealership.
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#101337 - 07/12/05 10:14 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
You know that times have changed when you realise that you just paid slightly MORE for your entertainment system than you paid for your first TWO New Cars TOGETHER!!

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#101338 - 07/12/05 10:40 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Zarak Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 1849
Loc: PA
As far as the service area vs. price question, I shop on price. But I also look at it that I am buying from the larger company (Subaru in my case), so there is no reason I can't take the car to a different dealer for service then the one I bought it from. I drove about an hour away to get my car based on the best price, but certainly would not go back there every time I need service done.

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#101339 - 07/12/05 10:48 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Zarak, You are missing having a good relationship with a dealer. For our good customers, we pick up and drop off their service cars. We give loaners. We wash and vacuum each service vehicle. Being in a smaller area CAN be nice.

Oh - And Subaru (or any car maker) is not the providor of good service. The dealer is.
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#101340 - 07/13/05 12:04 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
Me, I've got an independant mechanic I trust. The dealer can have it if I ever get a car with warranty repairs--in other words, ONLY if it's free. Other than that, it goes to my mechanic. I had a Volvo dealer charge me $400 to replace a sensor. It didn't work properly, and he told me it was the computer--for $700 he would replace that. I told him thanks but no thanks. 4 years later, we decided to get it settled once and for all (intermittent check engine light). Our mechanic took it apart, told us it had been put together wrong, fixed it, and charged us way less than $400. The computer is fine.
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#101341 - 07/13/05 08:33 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
I'm with you on that note Ken, whenever I have warranty issues I go back to the dealer. I also have a smaller shop that has been around for 25 years. I always have the dealer quote the work and they are always close to double the cost. Last year I had to have the valve cover gaskets replaced on our 95 Isuzu Rodeo. I also had some other things taken care of, it was an all day job. Cars are not as easy to work on as they used to be Anyway, the dealer wanted $1200+ and I got it done for about $650 at the local shop. It is to bad dealers can't be competitive.
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#101342 - 07/13/05 12:50 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
Unfortunately, my choice of dealers is somewhat limited. As with just about anything in Alaska, and they all know it. For the most part, they seam to be reasonable, but salesman are still salesmen, and they need to feed their families too. So price shopping and service do not really go hand in hand. You get what you get, and hope they at least have the decency to use lubricant before they give it to you.

But for the past six years, I get a quote for the vehicle I want, with all the options I want from an invoice dealer. I then take that quote to the local dealers. They get one chance to earn my business by matching the quote, plus shipping charges that I would be stuck paying from the invoice dealer (about $1500). If they match this total price, they get a check and off I go in my new rig. It they don’t, I have the invoice dealer ship it to me. I absolutely detest dealing with salesmen and all the G-dam games that goes along with buying a rig. And every time I do this (about every two years), I get the same BS. With the quote matching I do now, there is no BS, no games and no lying to get my business.

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#101343 - 07/13/05 12:57 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
Now that Chevy has extended the employee discount, and Ford and Chrysler have jumped on board, I'm not sure what I'm going to do....We have 2,000 built up on our GM card, so we have been looking at the Trailblazers and Equinox SUV's. However, Ford has the employee discount + upto 4,000 cash back. I guess I'll let my wife decide, as I got the last new vehicle...a Z71 Chevy Silverado Ext Cab...torch red...just put a 3" body lift on it so I can get up there with the big boy's from Dodge and Ford, he he
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#101344 - 07/13/05 01:06 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
I'm waiting for the subsidiaries to jump in--like Jaguar, Aston Martin, Mercedes, Volvo...
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#101345 - 07/13/05 01:22 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
I "think" I saw a like minded add for Saab just the other night.

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#101346 - 07/13/05 01:29 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
NOW we're talking... Let's see... there's also Mazda, sort of. Zzzz.... Mitsubishi, kind of....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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#101347 - 07/13/05 07:40 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
My wife really wants a Honda Pilot, they are one of the best SUV's rated out there. Problem is Honda does not deal, they have no competition in Des Moines.
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#101348 - 07/13/05 09:30 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
snakeyes Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/13/04
Posts: 828
Loc: Newburgh, NY
In reply to:

NOW we're talking... Let's see... there's also Mazda, sort of. Zzzz.... Mitsubishi, kind of....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



well ford is onboard then so is mazda because ford owns mazda. oh wait no they have controling interest thats not the same as owning. huh lets ask Craigsub. lol
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#101349 - 07/13/05 09:47 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
My 2000 Chevy Silverado has been awesome - not even brakes or battery - for 65,000 mi. The wife's Japanese-built 2000 Maxima recently cost me $800, though.
I bought my Chevy "one-at-this-price" on a Friday morning from a dealer that was outright criminal. A few months after my purchase the same sales manager was caught in a sting by the local TV news spewing the same lies he tried on me. Good thing I have a Deputy DA for a friend.
Shop for the best price, but buy American, IMO.

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#101350 - 07/13/05 09:51 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
Nice Bigwill, I drive a 2000 Red Z71 Silverado Ext Cab, no problems with 55,000 miles. My wife is currently driving a 1995 1/2 yr model Isuzu Rodeo LS 4x4 with 115,000 miles, still going strong and looks like new. If she gets somthing newer, safer to transport the kids, I will drive that to work to save miles on the bowtie
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M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#101351 - 07/13/05 09:56 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
So, do you think the new Chevy front end is as hideous as I do? They're practically giving them away here in the LA area. I saw an ext cab LS w/ 5.3 V8, etc... and a sticker of $26K for an ad price of $16K. I had the phone in my hand before I remembered that my next truck will be the Crew Cab type. Damn good deal though.

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#101352 - 07/13/05 10:24 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13325
Loc: Iowa
Totally agree, I hate the new headlights, give me the impression they were made in Asia. No pun intended. I would take any of the 90's through our years anyday.
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#101353 - 07/14/05 02:47 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16268
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
How many miles on your wife's Maxima?

I have a 1997 Maxima that I bought used (was a lease return) in 2000. It's got about 85,000 on it now. Last year I had to drop almost $2k on it for an "oh my god I can't believe this thing hasn't fallen apart" problem with the front axle.
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#101354 - 07/14/05 08:32 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
twodan19 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 624
Loc: Pembroke, Massachusetts
saab is owned by ford; it's included in the deal

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#101355 - 07/14/05 08:36 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
Oops! I thought Saab was owned by GM

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#101356 - 07/14/05 08:49 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
twodan19 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 624
Loc: Pembroke, Massachusetts
big will, i agree, so go wth a gmc like i did. traded 99 1500, ext cab 4wd, w/ 90k for an 05, 2500hd; night & day between the two. of course, the 2500hd is likes more gas, but it can handle a snow plow w/out voiding the warranty.

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#101357 - 07/14/05 08:50 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Saab is a GM company ... Volvo is Ford. And yes, trying to keep all this straight is hard even when one is in the auto biz ...
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#101358 - 07/14/05 08:53 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
twodan19 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 624
Loc: Pembroke, Massachusetts
ooppps, i stand corrected

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#101359 - 07/14/05 11:56 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
Just because it's owned by them doesn't necessarily mean it's included. I doubt that Ford is including Aston Martin in the deal. If they are, I'm going out and getting a nice big loan...
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#101360 - 07/14/05 12:31 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
Aston Martin? Heck, if that's included, count me in for a Vanquish.

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#101361 - 07/14/05 04:24 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
Oh yeah.... I don't think the Big 3 own any one more exclusive than that, except Maybach. Frankly, I don't need a boat.
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#101362 - 07/14/05 09:54 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
hey pmb, the wife's Maxima has 60K on it. The CPU registered an ignition problem, but it was intermittent. They replaced the coils (it apparently has separate ignition coils for each cylinder) and changed the belt (I know, I know). Regardless, I didn't want the wife and baby cruising in a faulty vehicle, y'know?
I still like the Maxima - it hasn't left us stranded anywhere - but in my experience with Japanese vehicles of all kinds, I have no more confidence in them than American vehicles.

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#101363 - 07/14/05 09:57 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
oh yeah, and the front wheel drive apparently causes increased problems with the axle. If the little protective boots get torn or knocked off, the axle apparently gets damaged pretty quickly. The guys in the paper say keep driving it, though - at least until the noise is too annoying to tolerate.

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#101364 - 07/14/05 10:05 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
biggsly5000 Offline
local

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 205
Loc: Atascocita, TX
And parts for Hondas are outrageous. I think the Japanese brands are more refined and feel like they are better than american cars, but you pay a price for it. My new Nissan has been to the dealer 3 times in 7 months. My old Ford Contour has never had a problem in 6 years-go figure( the Nissan was 2x more $$ too).
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#101365 - 07/14/05 10:10 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
My wife's old Honda was a major POS. The interiors of the imports seem a little nicer, though, eh?

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#101366 - 07/14/05 10:15 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
biggsly5000 Offline
local

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 205
Loc: Atascocita, TX
I had a 90 Prelude that had electrical gremlins no mechanic could ever figure out, transmission leaked, pop up headlights worked when they wanted to, sunroof leaked, blew out both of the brake lines!(lot of fun when your brake fluid all sprays out)!looked real pretty though and ran like a bat out of hell.
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#101367 - 07/15/05 01:28 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
Funny--our 91 Honda Civic has been pretty darn good to us. It went through CV boots until we switched mechanics, though.... Hmm.... The '94 Volvo has been a bit more costly.
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#101368 - 07/15/05 05:52 AM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
I posted a while ago how close all these cars are regarding mechanical breakdown costs. When we "underwrite" and extended service contract, we know what the losses will be based on the data from a very large pool.

Some rough examples of cost on a "bumper to bumper" style, 100,000 miles warranty:

Accord/Camry - $1100
Ford Taurus/500 - $1100
Ford Explorer/Chevy Trailblazer - $1400
BMW 5 Series/Cadillac/Lexus - $2200

Luxury cars get a little more pricey ... but even the difference in domestic sedans to their Japanes counterparts is neglible.

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#101369 - 07/15/05 12:47 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
This import vrs American debate never ends. All manufactures make lemons. I don’t care where they come from, or who makes them. A friend of mine just dumped her A6 Quattro. The damn thing was in the shop for numerous problems ranging from a rear window that would decide to roll down all on it’s own to her latest, major transmission problems. Another friend has a Subaru that he had to recently replace a headlight (one month after warrantee ran out)…..$800. My X-wife’s Volvo S60R has been in the shop several times for weird problems. A buddy’s Boxer, same thing…..shop time. Another friend’s Lexus land cruiser look-alike…..in the shop several times. My bosses wife’s Benz, oh-boy….not only lots of shop time, but very expensive because it to is out of warrantee.

About all I can say for the imports, is they have nice seats. Especially Volvo. That S60 has the most comfortable seats my butt’s ever sat in. And that includes that Bentley I was drooling over, sitting in the London Heathrow airport with a sticker price of 240,000 pounds. Them Swedes know how to make a comfortable seat……

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#101370 - 07/15/05 03:38 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
BigWill Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
They're bigger than the Japanese engineers who make that country's cars. The difference is most obvious with motorcycles.

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#101371 - 07/15/05 04:34 PM Re: Anyone buy a new GM?
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16268
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I must say that the leather seat in my Maxima are plenty comfy and large enough for my 6'4" frame. The seat in the Jaguar X-Type I rented while in San Diego a couple weeks ago (I reserved a Taurus, but they ran out!) was not very comfortable due to its being slightly too narrow hor my hips -- which are by no means wide.
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