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#103917 - 07/09/05 09:52 PM Digital receivers?
asap2006 Offline
buff

Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 48
Haven't posted here in a long time... but I am curious if anybody here is using one of the spiffy new digital receivers such as the panny xr25,45,50,70,55 with their axioms? I don't see much mention of them on these boards, but they're discussed quite a bit on avsforum, hometheaterforum, and others. I just ordered the new xr55 today...replacing an old Yamaha rx-v595.

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#103918 - 07/09/05 11:06 PM Re: Digital receivers?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
ASAP, the Panny XR series of digital receivers is top on my list for a 2 channel! stereo system with bookshelf speakers. These Pannys are 6 channel HT receivers but folks are raving about them. If you google the XR receivers you'll see that some folks have already modified them and transformed them from great to superb! For the money, I'd give it a shot.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#103919 - 07/09/05 11:19 PM Re: Digital receivers?
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
OK, ya got my attention!!

How do these guys compare to tubes? (talkin' stereo only)

With M3s


Edited by F107plus5 (07/09/05 11:31 PM)

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#103920 - 07/10/05 12:55 AM Re: Digital receivers?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Perfect match, IMnsHO.

Here's a speaker review from a user on audioreview.com, who has his fancy newforms hooked up to a Panasonic receiver ... dunno the guy but he sounds like he knows what he's listening to:

Reviewed by: John Thomson, AudioPhile

Price Paid: $2100 at Newform Research

Product Model Year:
2003

Summary:
This review is of the 645 with the new digital amp package that John Meyer has put together. This consists of a Beringer Ultra-Drive Pro 2496 professional digital crossover. Input is analogue or digital. I am using it in digital mode driven from a Musical Fidelity X-Ray player used as a CD transport only. The Ultra-Drive feeds a Panasonic XR45 Home Theatre 6 x 100watt/ channel digital amp(probably more like a real world 70 watts) which is run as a 4 channel amp, biamping the 645's. Total cost is around $1k US. This equipment replaces a tube integrated amp from a very reputable firm. I won't mention it because it is a truly wonderful sounding amp and they don't need the agro. It started out as an experiment to see what the fuss was about digital amps, an easy step to take at the price. If I didn't like it, sell it on ebay for minimal loss.
One of the big benefits would likely be the removal of the passive crossover parts as well as fine tuning phase, time alignment and gain, all in the digital domain.
So what does it sound like? Quite remarkable. A cheap Japanese amp(American TI amp chip)blowing the doors off a $4k+ tube amp. I expected the bottom to be much tighter a al Bryston or other SS amp and was not disappointed. Deep, deep and under iron control. What I did not expect was the VERY large increase in resolution. The proverbial "I'm hearing things I've never heard before". Voices especially have way more presence. And loud - Neil Young got to 107db c weighted at 10feet before my ears and the room cried uncle. The speakers and amp however seemed happy and able to keep going louder. Maybe I'll get some ear defenders and see what the limit is.
As you would expect, it lacks the 'romantic' quality that a good tube amp conveys and some CDs do sound worse with this rig than with the tubes. ButI believe this is largely due to the fact that they were bad to begin with and the tubes were glossing over the imperfections. With the digital amp and John Meyers wonderful ribbons, there is just no hiding. But if, that which is there is good, the hairs on the back of your neck will be rising and you will have goosebumps.
And all this without playing around with fancy cables, connectors, minimal breakin, etc. This is only going to get better.
And I should make a nice profit from selling the tube amp!

Strengths:
Resolution, detail, soundstage, great bass control, volume, speed.

Weaknesses:
Cheap speaker connectors on Panasonic XR45.Complicated control system on Beringer if you decide to modify the settings - proceed only after becoming familiar with the instrution manual, but very flexible once you know your way around.
__________________________________________________________

anyway,

I saw the XR25 on discountjungle.com for $145. How can you go wrong? What I would do (and probably will do) is get one, upgrade the power cord (do I hear laughter?) google the XR 25/45/50/70 and see what folks have done to tweak them (replace caps and output jacks, probably) and give it a ride with a pair of M3s and a little sub.

My experience with the utterly weird Sonic Impact T-Amp has my palps atwiddle as to digital amps.


Edited by 2x6spds (07/10/05 12:58 AM)
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#103921 - 07/10/05 04:43 AM Re: Digital receivers?
Thasp Offline
devotee

Registered: 03/27/04
Posts: 338
In the lower price range, even Denon's been measured to lie about their power output and put out much less than their rated power. Panasonic's digital receivers put out about 80x5, their older XR-45 model was measured to.

For that price range, that's a miracle.

However, they may still have the 100 hz minimum crossover. If so.. seems like a waste.

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#103922 - 07/10/05 11:23 AM Re: Digital receivers?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Dunno, Thasp, a 100Hz x-over sounds good for a pair of M3s. I think the Pannys are rated at 100 watts/channel into 6ohms, and of course fewer into 8 ohms.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#103923 - 07/10/05 11:56 AM Re: Digital receivers?
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
All Right 2x6!! Things are really getting interesting now!! Thanks for the info!!!

(better than?)Tube sound at a lower price, but without the warm comfy orange glow which means so much....to my eyes, not my ears. And no alignment woes and tubes to periodically replace! Although that kind of involvement is almost therapeutic!!

Getting rid of the crossover could be an important consideration, although I may very well, due to the fairly small listening roon, go with just M3s alone with no sub for music only. If it's not satisfying, of course, a small musical sub can be added.

However, if the lowest x-over IS only 100hz, that may not be a problem with a sub considering that the small bass hump in the M3s "May" work OK if the drop ain't too many db at x-over!! Hmmmmm.....

No question about it; additional Googling is certainly warrented

(not to mention watching this space to see what YOU do!!)

Say....uh...what ever happened to the latest Frankenstein test....?

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#103924 - 07/10/05 04:55 PM Re: Digital receivers?
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
I'm waiting for a little package from Joe V up there in Axiomland, but the project has to wait for a few weeks until I'm done with trial. I'll be gone for a while. Seeya.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#103925 - 07/10/05 05:25 PM Re: Digital receivers?
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
Oh Rats....

Ok.....see ya





But hey!!......A package can be good....huh?


Edited by F107plus5 (07/10/05 05:27 PM)

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