Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Laid Back vs. Lack of Detail

I received my Factory Outlet M40's a few days ago. They arrived in very good condition, as I believe most everyone else has experienced. I could only find a very small mark on one of them, so the fit and finish is very nice for B stock units and are actually a bit smaller than I visualized, which is a good thing.

With all of the discussion about Axiom speakers, I assumed, maybe mistakenly, that they were all fairly detailed in their sound. I know the M40's are reputed to be a bit laid back, but I didn't equate laid back to mean lack of detail. They only have a few hours on them, so I don't know if after 50-100 hours this will change, assuming break-in is a valid concept - vs. your hearing adapting to the new sound.

For lack of a better word, they sound restrained and somewhat muted. They sound nice, but I have some inexpensive Awia book shelf speakers from an old 5.1 package that bring out quite a bit more detail. The overall sound is not as rich sounding as the M40, but I can hear a lot more of the little things in the background on these than I can with the M40's. It was a frustrating first impression. I am hoping this improves over time. Any comments would be appreciated. I should add that I am using a Yamaha HTR-5560 to drive them and I am using 14 gauge speaker wire.

Maybe if you wanted detail the M22 is more of what you want. They are very detailed and great in most modest size rooms. You pretty much have 30 days to evaluate if the M40 is your ticket. I found that with Axioms there is really no break-in. Its more of your ears and your head getting used to its sound.

Good luck;
Saturn

Have you checked(with a test-tone CD or other source of high frequencies)to make sure that both tweeters are operating? There should be a little less detail than the M22, but not to the extent that you describe.

ajb, (the colour is to keep readers interested in this rather long post)

You are correct in thinking that your brain is what needs time to 'break in'.
The very first day i received the M22s and M60s for auditioning, the sound of the M22s was so vastly different from my Technics bookshelf system that i had for 10 years, i wasn't sure what to think of the Axiom sound. I was still liking the Technics better, BUT was this just because i was used to it?
I had to take more time to compare the speakers before deciding.
I said to myself, the sound is different but is it better?
The M22s had less bass but it was as if someone had turned up a treble knob yet in a clean and clear way. I just wasn't immediately impressed.
I was simply so used to the sound of my Technics that it was my 'reference' for good sound (for a lack of having a better system for so many years).
Here was another part of my original problem and 'slight' disappointment the first day i got the new speakers for auditioning, i had lines like this running through my head:
"The day my Axioms arrived i was blown away".
You can substitute alot of brands in that statement instead of Axiom, but the reality is that new speakers will not always provide a profoundly world changing experience. So many customers pump it up sometimes that your idea of what is going to happen when your speakers arrive just doesn't live up to the hype. This doesn't mean the speakers are not great quality, just that your brain once again was biased by a preconceived notion of greatness.

I was equally hampered by my thoughts that my first impressions Axioms was going to be amazing compared to what i had... and it simply was not.
This is a major bias to get out of your mind before you should make any decisions. I've heard several times from people first buying a quality system saying exactly the same thing you have "they don't sound as good as people say they do....".
Based on such major expectations immediately after researching and buying a new speaker, i'm not surprised.
Give the Axioms time (or any speaker brand for that matter), take tons of music and listen to them on both speaker sets. Try to distinguish the bass, the mid sound, the high sound, vocals, drum snares, people breathing, the strum of a guitar chord, and continue to get more specific. Listen for those sounds and eventually you will start to hear what speaker your ears prefer.

As for the thoughts that your Aiwa speakers have a better sound, i'm doubting it (from my perspective). If they were built with the lovely amount of quality that my Technics speakers were, then they are most likely highly coloured in the high frequencies and low end to appease the masses of cheap market sales that target young teenagers expecting lots of thump and ear piercing noise.
I always thought my Technics system had great sound and even after buying new stuff to replace it, i still thought the Technics was better, until i took more time to listen more objectively to both.

Keep in mind as i tell the next part of my tale that this Technics system orignally cost me $1500 and the replacement speakers and receiver totalled under $500!! (hence the 'cheap' low end Technics was actually 3 times more expensive than my present components).
Just three weeks ago i bought a pair of new Tannoys for my office. They were replacing my age old Technics system which was replaced last year by the Axioms (hence my Technics was moved to office duty).
When i first listened to the Tannoys, i purposely sat myself down before listening and said
"Ok, i'm not going to automatically think the Tannoys will sound better than these Technics"
I tried as best as i could to remain objective.

I then compared the two speakers using the A & B channel switch on my H/K receiver. I was SHOCKED to hear my old Technics speakers sounding better than the Tannoys!!
The Tannoys sounded muted, flat and simply unimpressive (hmmm, not unlike my Axioms on day 1). The sound was good but seemed missing alot of high end compared to the Technics.
I was however comparing a 2 way speaker to the Technics 3 way so at the time, i figured the extra Technics driver was the difference. I then started to wonder if buying those Tannoys was the right choice and perhaps i should have been looking for equivalent 3 way speaker to replace them, which the Tannoys were not.
I went for about 2 weeks grumbling over my Tannoy purchase hoping my brain would break in and they would start to sound equal or better than the Tannoys, but they still had a dulled muted sound.
I then noticed something i had not noticed before.
All the time i was listening to my Technics in my office, the tweeter was at least 8 inches above my ears. Since i had placed the Tannoys right next to them for comparisons, the Tannoy tweeter was also above my ears although a touch lower than the taller Technics. I totally forgot about trying to setup the tweeter position so it is at ear height.
Not wanting to 'audition' the Tannoys improperly, i put on my test cd and listened to both speakers. Then i elevated my office seat to a height more appropriate in putting my ears in line with the tweeters and i tested the sound again.
The sound was so different AGAIN, i had to re-evaluate all my impressions. Once i was inline with the tweeters, the quality difference between the two speakers became VERY apparent. I even had my wife sit down and listen to this while i switched betwen the A & B channels w/o ever telling her which speaker was turned on at any given time (yes i did actually blindfold her but that story is for some other x rated forum).

The Technics sounded clear still but very harsh, distorted almost or scratchy (for lack of a better word). The Tannoys comparitively now sounded alot more clear, definitely not muted as i had first thought, but SMOOTH. The sound was so much smoother than the Technics and yet i had not heard this the first time around nor after 2 weeks while sitting low in my chair.

I have since concluded why i had thought the Technics sounded so much better. I was 'accidentally' off-axis (vertically by a considerable degree) for quite some time and hence, the harsh Technics tweeter was not producing sound direclty at my ear level making it sound far less harsh but clear whereas this effect on the Tannoys was to make them sound muted when their tweeter is really much more detailed than i first thought.

Long story made short:
New speakers, regardless of other's opinions will not always 'blow you away'. Don't ever think they will before you hear them yourself.
Secondly, even old low end components can sound good (and better than anything new) if that is all you have ever really owned.
Third, sometimes orientation and almost ALWAYS, room configuration will modify the sound for better or for worse.
Give it time and try out different things.

ajb,

Notwithstanding his bordering-on-obnoxious colorizing, Chess makes some important points. The M40 is a much better speaker than you think it is right now...I would suspect the Aiwa's are bright and forward like most cheap bookshelf speakers, making the much more neutral Axioms sound dull and recessed by comparison.

I totally agree with Chess. I had exactly the same experience with my M3s when they first arrived. I was so disappointed that my Panasonic seemed to sound better and began wondering if I'd wasted all my money. Like Chess said, I gave it some time and things still didn't improve. I finally discovered that in my haste to hook the speakers up, I'd used some old, cheap worn out oxidized thin wire. I immediately bought some oxygen free 12 gauge wire and tried it again. Viola! I was much happier now with the sound.

It took me a little time to understand that I wasn't suffering from ear fatigue anymore and we actually play for 8 hours at a stretch these days. The neutral and smooth sound of the Axioms sinks in slowly and you realize it over time.

I'm sure you'll enjoy your M40s very soon.

Hey, what a surprise.
Someone labeled me as colourful.
Thanks fhw.
I was hoping at least one person would read that entire lengthy discourse.

I think many people would read that post as it sure doesn't escape the eye. Particularly more interesting as many people face the same experience. Mind over Logic or rather "Hype over Music"

:-)

Slow day at the office Chess? Great post btw (with or w/out the colors).

In reply to:

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I even had my wife sit down and listen to this while i switched betwen the A & B channels w/o ever telling her which speaker was turned on at any given time (yes i did actually blindfold her but...

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So, what did she have to say? I mean, about the speakers!