Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler The "unofficial" EP-600 drawing thread ...

Just laying the 600 on its side. I think there's a few pictures of Amie and Ian's floating around. Look for the thing that looks like a center channel on the floor. It isn't...

Here it is:

Since I already won the M3's I'm using from the last Axiom contest, I think it's only fair that I should win this one too.



Seriously thou, I'm too afraid to measure my existing sub's spot... cause I'd really love to have the 600 but I donno if it would fit. I guess I'd prolly say 600 or 500+M60's for me.

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I'm not speaking to you Curtis. You actually supported Grandarf in that thread over at AVS (or so it seemed to me )

Yes, you can go with the EP500, and donate the rest to charity. However, if you'll read Craig's post at the top of this page, you'll see the winner can apply the credit to any of Axioms speakers. You might want to get a pair of bookshelves or something, in addition to the EP500.

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I just supported Grandarf's opinion and how he formulated it. I didn't think he was attacking any one company. Once thread participants view posts as attacks and defends....the thread is useless and goes in circles. Anyways...enough said. The thread died and I think that is good.

As for the raffle...I have no room for more speakers..or a sub for that matter. I have thought about getting a set of speakers for one of my brothers if I did win.

Curtis - He formulated a statement that "Axiom posted its own measurements because they were not happy with the Soundstage results" of the M-60's and M-80's. That statement was untrue. Axiom posted measurements from the NRC of products which have been improved in the years since the SoundStage measurements were done. Get it ?

Next - He then had a problem with Axiom posting both Anechoic and In room sensitivity specs. There are quite a few companies who do the same. Somehow, I never saw you respond to his problem with that. Even YOUR favorite company quotes both.

Next, He said he would "point out ANY company who had measurements which did not live up to published specs", yet he did no such thing until examples were put under his nose.

But, it is a free country. If you like how Grandarf views things, good for you ...

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I didn't think he was attacking any one company.

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Well I saw it differently, and am surprised you didn't.

From his first post in the thread.

"One thing that keeps popping up thru my mind as I read about these incorrect measurements is how quickly people seem to jump to the conclusion that the measurements are flawed and that the correct measurements are those advertised by the speaker manufacturer.

Take Axiom, measured by a respectable company, which has no reason to publish either positive or negative reviews, and they come up with Graph A for m80ti. Some find offense, and claim that this measurement was done with an old version of the speaker, and point to a graph B, this time performed by the speaker manufacturer himself is the correct measurement!

There's a saying, "if you don't like the measured FR of a speaker, move the microphone". Personaly, I would take any graph/stat from a manufacturer with a grain of salt, for the simple reason that its to their advantage that they display the most positive information possible, even if its not totally true..

Take Axiom's M3TI, from soundstage's measurements, they are +/- 4dB from 70hz to 20... They claim +/- 3dB from 60-22.. I'm fairly sure most manufacturers do things like to an extent...

They also show two stats for speaker sensitivity, one for 'in room', another for anechoic.. Shouldn't speaker sensitivity always be measured in anechoic? What is the point in showing "in room"? In what room? In my room? In their room? In room of what size? It makes no sens... I guess its just to 'confuse' people, so that when looking at the stats, they see an 91dB efficiency speaker instead of an inefficient 88dB...

Anyhow, for the m80ti graph's, I'd wait for a third party measurement before believing that the FR has so drastically changed.. Not that I believe that its impossible that is has, but until we can see it from an unbiased source, I'd be hesitant to believe the graphs by the manufacturer, because in the end, their interest lies into showing the most possible positive graph they can find, not the most accurate..."

Isn't he implying that graphs published by Ascend, or, for that matter, ANY manufacturer, are unreliable, and unworthy of the public's trust?

From another of his posts:

"Axiom might specify that they want measurements to publish on their website, vs measurements for their technical staff... I have no clue, then if the measurements for publishing aren't to Axiom's liking, then they can have them redo the tests, or just go to another company which will provide them with better graphs.

But the point is, that in the end, Axiom has control of the test results, and whether or not they are published... Why don't they have measurements for their other models? They haven't been measured? The results weren't to Axiom's liking? I won't pretend to know things I don't, but third party results is more credible than the company who would benefit/profit from sweetened results...

Could you tell me exactly how many times Axiom has their speakers measured? And if they have published ALL of those results no matter how unflattering they were? No one can be sure of that besides Axiom, so as I said, I prefer to remain objective and not jump to conclusions..."

Do you really believe that Axiom manipulates the graphs measured by the NRC? Do you really think it would be good business to do so? What do you think would happen if that came out?

I must disagree with you, Curtis. I strongly feel he was attacking Axiom specifically, and virtually all manufacturers in general.

Saturday afternoon to ya'll from Texas. My house would collapse under the vibration from a 600 so when I win, I think I'll get a 500, 150 & 8s. Although we do know that everything is bigger in Texas so maybe I'll put it in the back of my pickup, hook it up and bounce up and down along 610!!! hmmmm. :-)

I am thinking an EP500 and a pair of M50's+ $100, would hit the spot perfectly.

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But, it is a free country. If you like how Grandarf views things, good for you ...

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You're right it is...so why is it such a big deal? If you do not like someone's opinion...don't counter with another opinion...counter with fact.

For the record....I didn't say that I agree with Grandarf, I said I support that he has his own opinion and how he got there. Just as we all say...day in and day out. To prove him wrong, you need to show him hard evidence, not just another opinion. That is when things go in circles.

Ask yourself one question: If he had replaced the examples used with different brands, would the discussion been any different? If so, why? If not, why not?

I do support this statement: "Not all speaker manufacturer advertised specs are truthful."

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I am thinking an EP500 and a pair of M50's+ $100, would hit the spot perfectly.

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That's one of my possibilities too, but the M50's would be for my brother along with my current VTF-2 Mk2. Must stop daydreaming now.

Hi everyone, I got in for 2 tickets when I saw it over at avsforum. I wanted to say this contest was a great idea. Its for a good cause and it at least in my case, brought Axiom speakers to my attention for the first time. Before the contest, I only knew of Axiom from the Audiolics review of the EP500. Now, for the if I win question, since I'm just getting into this and my current speakers are pretty poor, I'd go for the Epic 50 or 60 package with the EP500 and happily pay the difference so I could have a real home theater