Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Sub or No Sub when listening to 2 channel cd music

Its also a good piece to have in a 2.1 system.I have it in between the preamp and amp.

It seems it is for multi channel sacd dvd-a. The following is copied from Outlaw website:

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Most of today's DVD-Audio players, and some of today's multi-channel SACD players, do not have bass management when you're playing DVD-Audio or SACD discs. (The players themselves may contain bass management menus, but this built in circuitry is probably effective only when you're listening to Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks.)

As a result, when you're listening to DVD-Audio or SACD discs, all of the speakers get a full-range signal, (with deep bass being sent to all speakers), and the separate ".1" bass track goes only to the subwoofer. Thus, the main speakers in the system may get more bass than they can handle. And in systems without a subwoofer, most of the bass will be thrown away, because it cannot be routed to the other speakers.

The ICBM can fix these problems entirely. Connect it between your DVD-Audio or SACD player and your receiver or preamp/processor, and the ICBM will put all the bass in the right place. If you have small satellite speakers and a subwoofer, it will keep the bass out of the small speakers and send it all to the subwoofer. If you have large tower speakers and no subwoofer, the ICBM will route the ".1" bass from the subwoofer track over to the tower speakers.

Even if your DVD-Audio or SACD player does have bass management, it will be much less versatile than the ICBM's circuitry, and thus won't let you fine-tune your system, as the ICBM will.

The ICBM works not only with 5.1-channel systems, but also with 6.1-channel systems like Lucasfilm THX Surround EX and DTS ES-Matrix and ES-Discrete. We have included an extra channel of bass management to accommodate these systems. That extra channel also lets the ICBM work with the 6.0 channel systems now being championed by Chesky Records. These systems repurpose two of the channels in DVD-Audio or multi-channel SACD, using the center channel as a left front/side "height" channel, and the LFE channel as a right front/side "height" channel.

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How much this thing cost?

I read a little more and found your point Rick (sorry, I should have done my home work prior to my previous post):

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In addition to performing this mandatory function for DVD-Audio or SACD, the ICBM may also substitute for a pre-amp's own bass management circuitry.

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However, I would probably think that a great piece of pre/pro like Rotel RC-1070 should have great bass management features. I believe that you have the same preamp. Did you notice any improvement with your 2.1 setup after purchasing the ICBM?

It seems this one retails for $249 plus shipping. Is that right?

Generally no sub with my M60s. I don't know exactly why (could still be setup), but my ears don't seem to like having crossovers in the bass region.

When I had a PSB 6i sub I felt that most pop CDs ended up with too much bass even though I had matched levels using pink noise from the Avia CD. When I replaced the PSB with an SVS 20-39PC+ the "too much bass" problem pretty much went away, although the deep bass was better and I had again matched levels with the Avia tracks. I still slightly preferred the sound without the sub though.

I finally found one album which definitely sounds better with the sub than without -- Bif Naked's latest, "Superbeautifulmonster" seems "right" with the sub on but a bit thin without it. Don't know why yet.

i too use m60's without my sub during music, as i feel there is often to much bass with the sub on, but then again i havent gotten an spl meter...damn source buying out radioshack to blame

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I would probably think that a great piece of pre/pro like Rotel RC-1070 should have great bass management features

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I do have the RC 1070 and it has no bass management at all.Although the M80s do have good bass on their own they are no match for the Hsu STF 3.With the ICBM in place you can tell the amp does not have to work as hard.Without it the RB 1080 gets quite warm but with it the amp barely gets warm to the touch.It also seems that with the sub doing all the grunt work that the mids and highs on the M80s are more focused and crystal clear.This what I have noticed.

Thyname,

Yep, $249 is the retail price. However, when available, you can get a B-Stock ICBM for $199 plus shipping. That's the route I went. Have had no problems at all.

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With the ICBM in place you can tell the amp does not have to work as hard.Without it the RB 1080 gets quite warm but with it the amp barely gets warm to the touch.

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My RB-1080 gets very hot running the M60s though. I will definitely consider adding an ICBM when purchasing my HT. Thanks a lot Rick and Jack for introducing me to this important piece of audio equipment! I don't think it will make any difference now that I don't have a sub, will it?

>>I don't think it will make any difference now that I don't have a sub, will it?

Nope, you actually have to strip out the low notes so they don't have to through your main amp. Otherwise it's like delegating work before you hire anyone -- it feels good but doesn't actually accomplish anything

yep.....I use one. Wouldn't break my heart if it wasn't there, but it does add some presence. it's set at 60. maybe it's just that my rack has plenty of room, but the amp doesn't get hot at all.