Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater I need a new subwoofer, for the 3rd time!

When i ordered from Axiom back on July 2nd. I received 2 QS4 surrounds, 2 m22tis bookshelves, a VP100 center, and an EP350 subwoofer. Since then everything had worked fine...except the EP350. It was suffering from random shutoffs, which after enough trouble I found out was a power issue in the amplifier. So after adjusting that I thought all was well. Until one day all of the sudden, the EP350 was dead. No light was on, nothing worked. I called and they sent a replacement. After it arrived I hooked up the new one where the old one was and the new one worked perfectly. So clearly it is not a problem with the outlet or anything since the new one would work there and the old one wouldn't. After not even a week of having the new one, I awake this morning and notice a lack of light coming from behind the new EP350. I look back and the light is off. I try the subwoofer. Dead. 2 EP350s have died. I need to get a new subwoofer. I don't want anything related to axiom. I want a reliable different company. Any suggestions? the EP350 was $650 and I want something good but it doens't need to be that expensive. I think I actually want something smaller that is still good because the EP350 had been causing so much static on the screen that it made watching any movies with the color black unbearable...no matter where in the room it was positoned.

You could be getting spikes in that circuit. Granted, it would have to be pretty major.

Plug in a lamp in the same socket all by itself. Turn it on. Does it flicker?

Technically you really need a meter to check for spikes but this might work too.

Well actually, for the 2nd EP350 I used a dif outlet. I just checked with the first outlet when I had both (took turns plugged them in and saw that one worked and the other didn't). But I have game systems hooked up to those outlets now. No problems...they never shut off or reset. Never had any problems with any of the outlets in my room and I've had plenty of stuff hook up.

EDIT: And to follow what you said, I did try a lamp. No problem with it.

How about the HSU VTF-3 MKII. It's $699 and 350 watts, 18Hz max extension mode. It's also sheilded so it might help with the interference you were getting on the TV. How close to the TV was the Axiom sub?

Also you could try the VTF-2 MKII for $499 (250 watts, 20Hz max extension).

The VTF-2 MKII is 25hz in max extension mode not 20hz.

Just a thought- Give Axiom a call and tell them what going on- while there products my not be perfect there support is hard to beat.
Then after three strikes.....

Hate to see problems like this with Axioms, but there are other factors too. There is a guy down the street from me that has Rockets and his sub died on him, he got a replacement, and a few weeks later, that one was dead. He was using some expensive surge protection gear (not saying it is great, just expensive). In the end it was his $1200 (purchased less than a year ago) Denon receiver (don't recall the model, but could find out)... It seemed that the receiver was never letting the sub shut off, but was, instead, sending it a signal that was too low for the sub to produce, but at high volumes, or something strange like that, so he never heard it, but the amp was processing the signal non-stop, overheated and died. That was the best explaination he got from the folks at Rocket (AV123 or whatever) and Denon. Denon replaced his receiver, and sent him a gift card for $100 to Amazon.com for his troubles. He is now on his 3rd sub, and is having no problems in over 2 months.

I also have a SVS 20-39PCi sub that the amp went wacko on me after a couple of months. I tried different outlets, different cables, different sources (2 different receivers) and it still would do this super loud, low frequency rumble for no reason and at odd times. Got a new amp, and it seems to have fixed the problem.

They all have their flaws, and not everything is made 100% perfect. After all, humans are involved in the manufacturing process, but I can tell you this, it may not be the amps fault. Then again, you may be hitting some odd thing that only impacts your exact set up, and any significant change (such as a totally different piece of equipment like a different brand.model sub) may break that particular set of variables.

It is frustrating, I know, trying to troubleshoot, and getting nowhere sometimes, but I just want to make sure that you realize that you may get a different brand sub and have the same problem, or not...

Good luck. I am glad that I am no longer in the position that you are. You'll make it through...

What I would try, in order to completely eliminate the questionable household circuit(I've done this before while checking high wattage items)was to grab a high amp extension cord and plug it into a high amperage circuit kitchen outlet. Make sure not much is "On" in the kitchen circuit other than the fridge, and give the test item a try.

Of course, if the 2nd sub is dead.....

Sorry your having a problem, but I would say the majority of Axiom Sub owners have not experienced such problems, I'm sure the problem is on your end. I know this sounds like a dumb question, but did you realize the green light won't be on all the time, only when LFE's are sent to it, and then the sub kicks in.

The way the light works for me is that: it is green when the Amp is turned on and being used by a movie. After I turn the amp off the green light stays on for somewhere around 10 minutes then changes to Red until I turn the amp on again. But the light isn't on at all now obviously.

I also had an amp failure on an SVS sub -- it started making a strange "wubba wubba" noise whenever it was powered on for a while. Not picking on SVS (they sent a new amp out the next day, SVS is second only to Axiom for service), I just think power amps tend to be more problematic than passive speakers.

I second the suggestion to work things out with Axiom but if I wanted something different and felt the EP350 might be more than I needed my first thought would be the good 'ol HSU STF2. I don't want to scare you away from subwoofers but you can even find a passel of amp failure complaints about Hsu if you dig a little. I haven't seen a single brand of sub that is immune to the occasional problem... and there are enough EP350 owners on the board here that it seems safe to say there is nothing inherently unreliable about the Axiom subs.

The "static" on the TV bothers me a bit... I don't have any direct experience with this but I thought that the interference problem with subs was mostly "fixed" colour fringing... just have a nagging thought that there might be something wacky with your power feeds...

>>the EP350 had been causing so much static on the screen that it made watching any movies with the color black unbearable...no matter where in the room it was positoned

This sounds really wierd. Are you saying the sub could be 8 or 10 feet away from the TV and still interfere with the picture ?

I don't feel so bad about my JBL PB12 after reading this. I guess I can deal with a little clicking and weezing at start up after all.

I have had my sub as far as 7 feet away and the interference is the same. Is there to find out if the problem lies in the reconditioned Onkyo 602 I have?

Wid,
Yes the max extension mode is 25Hz, but the VTF2 will still hit 93dB at 20Hz according to Tom Nousaine who test a lot of subs for S&V mag(http://members.cox.net/fabulousfrankie/Nousaine.htm)and thats why I said 20Hz. Just like the VTF3 max extension mode is 20Hz but the VTF3 will still do 88dB at 16Hz.

I understand the VTF 2 can go lower than published on the website.I have owned 2 of them and still have one.But for someone that only looks at the specs on the Hsu website they will see it reported as 25hz in max extension mode.Just like the STF-3 I have,its stated for 25hz tune on the website and I know for a fact it has strong output at 20hz.I was just stating what Hsu says the specs are.

I don't know, something here is just weird. The interference on your screen bothers me.

What do you live in? an apt building or complex? house? i ask because I have seen situations with computers dying like this and nobody could figure it out either. that was until I went downstairs or upstairs in these buildings and seen large industrial air conditioners, and furnaces, and large washing machines, etc that when they cut in, they spiked the entire building. I've seen situations where certain equipment like this only turned on at late times at night and that made it even harder to track.

I'd take a long heavy duty extension chord, and plug it in in another place far from the sub and see if the interference was still there.

Anyways, I'm sorry to hear about the bad luck. It could really be just two bad subs. Stuff like that happens to me all the time.

I will tell you that the hsu vtf3 mkii hits @#$@# hard and low, and has to be the fastest 12" I've heard in that price range so I recommend it with ease. Music / movies, it can handle it all. I could not afford the all mighty ep500 so I "settled" for the hsu, and it turns out it's one of the best things I bought.

I second newf's recommendation for the hsu sub.
I have always wanted to hear or read about a comparison between the EP500 and the VTF3 MKII subs.

Wait a minute. Just wanted to say that I believe in AXIOM 100% and that I am sure that they will remedy your situation as best as any company can. I don't mean to recommend a Hsu sub over an Axiom sub, its just that I am very pleased with my Hsu purchase. As I stated earlier I would love to hear the diff. between the Hsu and a comparable Axiom sub.

I also love, and would grab in case of a fire, my Axiom speakers. They are the cornerstone of my system and I recommend them to anyone that cares about home stereo sound.

During hurricane season last year, I took my Axioms for all three evacuations as well.

I certainly 2nd the sentiments

Uh, I did the same for earthquake evacuations?

In So Cal can I count smog and congested freeways as natural disasters?



Didn't think so. . .

My apologies Wid. Hsu is conservative while other manufacturers tend to exaggerate. I should have quoted Hsu specs along with the specs received from test results. I know you from the Hsu forum (if you're the same wid) and I know you know yor VTF2 subs well. Just wanted to let the original poster know what he'll get in real world vs. the underated Hsu specs.

Legairre

SanityLapse,
You've named your price but how large is your room? Did the Axiom sub fill the room with enough bass?

My theory with that was as follows. Say, in your room, the STF-3 may be able to do max, 103 dB @ 40 hz, 103 db @ 30 hz, 101 db @ 25 hz, and 98 dB @ 20 hz. Even though it has strong output at lower frequencies, it is still rolled off from what it can do at higher frequencies, so they advertize it that way. Perhaps a spec saying how far down all of their subs are at 20 hz in addition to the 25 hz spec would be better.

Clearly there is something amiss in your set-up as the chances of receiving two identically flawed EP350s is pretty remote.
My EP350 works fantastic 3 inches from the TV for 3 years now.

The tv interference is indeed strange, and at 7 feet away I would say that it is traveling through AC wiring of the home (if the sub is causing the interference to the TV).

I agree that if you can get a very high grade outdoor extension cord and plug in the sub from as far away as you can (a neighbor's house would be ideal) just to see.

Legairre,

It's really no big deal and certainly no need for an apology.I am the same person that posts on the Hsu website as Wid.Heaven forbid there would be two of us

Wid what Axioms do you own? While I'm a Monitor Audio S10 guy, I'm also an Axiom guy because I have their incredible QS8 surrounds.

I have the M80s in a stereo set up with the Hsu Stf-3.If you look at my profile I have a list of equipment that's in the setup.The Vtf-2 I have is with the Hsu Ventriloquist system for H/T.

Well my tv is a 32" Cathon-Ray-Tube TV and the manuel says that the axiom subwoofers are (for whatever reason) unshielded and can cause interference to CRT tvs. I asked a friend about that and he said its weird that axioms are unshielded. My room is aprox 10' wide, 10' long, and about 7.5' tall. Also I live in a house...there are no industrialed sized equipment here to screw it up like that.

Magnetic interference usually takes the form of color distortion on a CRT. My unshielded sub (not an Axiom) is maybe 7 ft away from my CRT, and I don't see any distortion. I don't think shielding has to do with the issue you're having.

Ok, so even if it happens to be an enviroment problem that is strange...would a smaller subwoofer be a good idea? maybe this big one is just too much of a strain on something.

I am certainly no electrical expert, but if, with your sub 7 feet away from your TV, you're having a problem with the picture on your TV, I doubt the problem is caused by the lack of shielding in the sub. When shielding is a problem, the TV's picture is usually distorted (skewed) and/or one or more of the colors (red, green, blue) looks like it's draining toward the sub. The lack of shielding allows the powerful magnet in the sub to affect one or more of the color "guns'" in the TV interfering with it's proper motion. At a distance of 7 feet, I'd be very surprised if the driver's magnet would have any magnetic affect on your TV

The problem you're having sounds like an electrical problem. Were I you, the first thing I'd do is have a qualified (VERY important) electrician come out and check your electricity. If you have had two 350s crap out on you, and your having "static" on your screen, even if it seems to be caused by the sub (and it may be, which is abnormal), you very well may have wiring problem.

Sorry you have to go through this, but having a QUALIFIED electrician check everything, at the very least, will put your mind to rest that your electricity is safe and functioning properly.

Good luck.

I agree with Jack.

To me, (not an expert mind you) it sounds like your problems are not the cause of the sub. I've had my 350 for quite some time without nary the first inkling of trouble.

Good luck.

Ditto Brother Bob, it is definately not the subwoofer, that much is obvious.

But, would getting a smaller subwoofer be a good idea? Electrians are too expensive and that might not be the problem anyway. I think this sub is too powerful for my little 10'x10'x7' room anyway. I can settle for a less powerful sub...so even if its an electrical problem...something that requires less power shouldn't strain it.

The problem is that a smaller sub which is still big enough for your room is going to draw almost the same power as the 350, ie probably not enough difference to be an issue. These subs are only drawing a few hundred watts at peak (and you probably aren't reaching peak), ie I don't think raw power draw is a factor.

A smaller woofer and smaller box is normally going to need more power to make the same SPL as you get with a bigger woofer.

As an example of what John is saying; I'm currently running a 10" sub with a 250W plate amp and it's barely adequate(it bottoms out way too soon)in my 16x28 room.

I found a dandy 12" driver that will electrically and physically fit my cabinet beautifully that has a better SPL and more travel and allow me to continue using my "small" 250W amp. So, yes, I'll be getting more output, with less input, with a larger more efficient driver.

Would I be able to see if anything is wrong with my room using a multimeter and outlet tester? If anything looks odd I could call an electrician. I still find this weird. I've had more stuff plugged into my room before and never ever had a problem....

I could throw out a few educated guesses, but I would feel far worse than just terrible if I were wrong.

We may have bridged the gap from a wonderfull hobby into the realm of personal safety.

"Weird", though, sure is a word that fits

Well, as a 20 yr A/C man, but NOT an electrician, I concur that the sub (or any other) is not the issue. The amperage draw on internal subs is comparable, unless you are getting into huge amps. I would say you may be in an area with significant "browns and spikes" that is big dips and surges in voltage. NOT remedied by a surge protector. I think monster products are over-rated and over-priced, however I use their VOLTAGE STABILIZER, because in the area we live the growth has exceeded the electrical supply. I got this because I witnessed 3 A/C compressor failiers on a 20 ton Trane commerical 3 phase 208/230 volt unit in less than 2 months. Trane brought in engineers from Tyler Tx. They exhusted themselves on these WARRANTY compressors thety had to absorb, they put in a voltage monitoring process. I looked at the readouts, and WOW!

Problem, voltage dips/spikes. That 230 volt went from a low of 168 to a high of 274. Depending on when the compressor (or equipment) is engaged it can, and eventually will be fatal to the equipment. I watch my Monster meters, and they are pretty consistant, then at high demand times they really dance all over the place, but it keeps a consistant 120 volt + or - 1 volt. I had to reset my samsung HD box all the time (10-12 times a month) until I stabilized voltage. It has not happened since. I am not saying to buy a stabilizer, It is more of a area/power co. specific thing. I am just "talking out loud" on your problem. It could be several things, and shilding is NOT an issue at 3ft. or beyound. Bottom line we have way more gagets, computers, large screens, and incredible GROWTH, yet or power grids have remained largly the same for decades. Remember the mass mid-west outages a few years back? Don't know the exact problem, but electrical problems can be a PITA, all that said, it could be as simple as a bad/loose connection on a home depot .70 cent grounded outlet and the bass from the sub is bouncing it and spiking supply voltage...........who knows, be patient, start with the easy "cheap" stuff first.

In reply to:

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Well, as a 20 yr A/C man, but NOT an electrician, I concur that the sub (or any other) is not the issue. The amperage draw on internal subs is comparable, unless you are getting into huge amps. I would say you may be in an area with significant "browns and spikes" that is big dips and surges in voltage. NOT remedied by a surge protector. I think monster products are over-rated and over-priced, however I use their VOLTAGE STABILIZER, because in the area we live the growth has exceeded the electrical supply. I got this because I witnessed 3 A/C compressor failiers on a 20 ton Trane commerical 3 phase 208/230 volt unit in less than 2 months. Trane brought in engineers from Tyler Tx. They exhusted themselves on these WARRANTY compressors thety had to absorb, they put in a voltage monitoring process. I looked at the readouts, and WOW!

Problem, voltage dips/spikes. That 230 volt went from a low of 168 to a high of 274. Depending on when the compressor (or equipment) is engaged it can, and eventually will be fatal to the equipment. I watch my Monster meters, and they are pretty consistant, then at high demand times they really dance all over the place, but it keeps a consistant 120 volt + or - 1 volt. I had to reset my samsung HD box all the time (10-12 times a month) until I stabilized voltage. It has not happened since. I am not saying to buy a stabilizer, It is more of a area/power co. specific thing. I am just "talking out loud" on your problem. It could be several things, and shilding is NOT an issue at 3ft. or beyound. Bottom line we have way more gagets, computers, large screens, and incredible GROWTH, yet or power grids have remained largly the same for decades. Remember the mass mid-west outages a few years back? Don't know the exact problem, but electrical problems can be a PITA, all that said, it could be as simple as a bad/loose connection on a home depot .70 cent grounded outlet and the bass from the sub is bouncing it and spiking supply voltage...........who knows, be patient, start with the easy "cheap" stuff first.

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This is what I would consider to be very useful information for the memory bank. Thanks John.