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#108732 - 08/25/05 10:22 PM Where would you install in/on wall speakers?
BruceH Offline
devotee

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 353
Loc: Western Canada (just)
I have done a lot of research for in-wall and on-wall speakers. Mostly because I was trying to 1) accomodate a wife with a dislike for "clutter" and 2) the fear of speakers getting knocked down with a little one on the way. Granted the one room I will have for a media room will be off lmits for a long time but eventualy it will get used due to space constraints.

I had planned a complete front installation (with exception of the subwoofer) in the media room. I'd likley stick with QS4s for surround.

I've seen one installtion where a set of in-walls were installed inthe kitchen since this is one space where a family spends a lot of time.

Any body else seriously consider in/on wall speakers? Where and how would you install them?

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#108733 - 08/25/05 10:37 PM Re: Where would you install in/on wall speakers?
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5433
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
My brother in law is thinking about them for rear surrounds (in the ceiling, regrettably) since there is no convenient place to mount them without "headbanging" (low ceiling) and the back wall is 35 feet away from the screen.

My gut feeling is that back wall would still be OK even at that distance but I have never seen a setup like that.

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#108734 - 08/26/05 06:26 AM Re: Where would you install in/on wall speakers?
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
I guess I'm stating the obvious here; but "If" I were starting from scratch and didn't already have a system and was going with a flat panel TV display, then I suspect I would go with on, in-wall, speakers for the mains and center to complement the flat panel attributes.

I don't, at this point anyway, see how I would incorporate them for surrounds or rears, although if I had a set, they would in fact work beautifully in my dining room system!(which is currently utilizing Brand "X" speakers)

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#108735 - 08/26/05 04:20 PM Re: Where would you install in/on wall speakers?
Foghorn Offline
local

Registered: 07/17/04
Posts: 226
Are you talking about having in-wall as part of your home theater? Or in addition to your home theater providing stereo sound to another part of the house?

I've heard some partial and total in-wall and in-ceiling home theater set-ups and in my opinion one must sacrifice a fair amount of sound quality to get the speakers flush with the wall or ceiling. We have stereo speakers in the ceiling of our bedroom as part of a multi-room stereo system that sound "OK" and I'm glad I got them - but they don't come close to my M22s in terms of hearing the nuances of the music or setting a sound-stage. I have heard some pretty good in-ceiling speakers at a friend's house but I decided not to spend a lot of money to get a better soundstage in my ceiling...

I'm looking forward to the new offerings from Axiom for wall and ceiling.

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#108736 - 08/30/05 06:33 PM Re: Where would you install in/on wall speakers?
BruceH Offline
devotee

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 353
Loc: Western Canada (just)
In reply to:

Are you talking about having in-wall as part of your home theater? Or in addition to your home theater providing stereo sound to another part of the house?




Well, the thought occured to me to have them orignally for a home theater installation. The wife was very excited at the prospect of no floor "clutter". However, my plan was to also use the home theater for listening as stereo. I decided to stick with floor-standers and perhaps relegate inwalls to areas like the bedroom, kitchen or living room walls for background music.

Also, dipoles seem to be the best for surround speakers and there does not seem to be much selection in the way of inwall dipole speakers.

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#108737 - 08/31/05 01:14 PM Re: Where would you install in/on wall speakers?
Foghorn Offline
local

Registered: 07/17/04
Posts: 226
"Also, dipoles seem to be the best for surround speakers and there does not seem to be much selection in the way of inwall dipole speakers."

Agreed. I think you would make a significant sacrifice in sound quality if you had in-wall surrounds. I wonder if 4 good in-wall speakers as the back part of a 7.1 set-up would sound similar to a good 5.1 system....

How are you planning to drive the bedroom/kitchen/living room speakers? With the home theater receiver or another source? This may impact some of your decision-making.

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#108738 - 08/31/05 07:08 PM Re: Where would you install in/on wall speakers?
newf Offline
devotee

Registered: 04/14/05
Posts: 360
The bigger problem here is letting the wife tell you what to do

Seriously, it is your home as well and how many rooms does a guy get to do anything "his" way?

Get the 80's and say, ooops, they dont't really fit in the walls honey, but look at em, their so purdy


_________________________
M-80 Mil.
VP-150 and QS8
M3 V3/On Wall M22V4
HSU VTF3-MKII/SVS PB-2000/SB-2000

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#108739 - 08/31/05 11:45 PM Re: Where would you install in/on wall speakers?
BruceH Offline
devotee

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 353
Loc: Western Canada (just)
In reply to:

How are you planning to drive the bedroom/kitchen/living room speakers? With the home theater receiver or another source? This may impact some of your decision-making.




I was planning on a seven channel amp (like the Outlaw 7125) and using two of the channels for a second source. This would leave me with a 5.1 system to start. I could then upgrade with an additional two channel amp to take over the inwalls and leave the seven channel for home theater. My hesitation to purchase the Outlaw amp is only due to the curiosity of Axiom providing a seven channel digital amp.

I feel that in-wall speakers are ideal for background music. My main listeing speakers are a set of Monitor Audio GR-60s. I just need a good amp to drive them.



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#108740 - 09/01/05 09:57 AM Re: Where would you install in/on wall speakers?
Foghorn Offline
local

Registered: 07/17/04
Posts: 226
Sounds like you are way ahead of where I was when I started putting speakers around our house.

You're going to have some great sound around the house when you are done. Have you shopped/tried different in-wall speakers? I don't think any of them are great, but I'd like to hear another opinion.

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#108741 - 09/01/05 10:18 PM Re: Where would you install in/on wall speakers?
BruceH Offline
devotee

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 353
Loc: Western Canada (just)
In reply to:

Have you shopped/tried different in-wall speakers?




I've looked at quite a few. Unfortunately I have not had the priviledge to audition them. The nicest in-walls that I have seen are made by (in no particular order) Mirage (HDT), Monitor Audio (this is one of the few, like the Axiom in/on wall that has a complete enclosure), Triad, Dynaudio, Polk and a few others.

What drew me to the Monitor Audio was the fact that there was no guesswork to the performance due to the fact that they had a complete enclosure. I believe they also have a "boundary effect" switch (most of the better speakers do) to compensate for the boundary effect. It is essentially a switch to modify the crossover point primarily in the lower frequency range.

Most other manufacturers hope you have well built walls, require you to install bracing in your walls (some provide some form of metal brackets), provide pre-built cabinets designed to fit in wall cavities (lets hope your house is built to code!) or give you plans for building the cabinets in wall. Triad is one of the few that offers an in-wall subwoofer. Oh how the wife loved that idea after having to look at my big black box for years (it has a nice piano gloss finish so I don't know what she is complaining about).

For the easy solution to get good quality sound, the Monitor Audio seemed to be the best bet (for a completely flush installation). My local dealer has a couple of samples (in-wall and in-ceiling). They are very well constructed.

I have learned that in-wall speakers have come a very long way but they are still not ideal (you have limited positioning capabilities - some provide swivelling dirvers). The honest truth is that nothing compares to a good bookshelf or floorstanding speaker, however, nothing will make the wife as happy as an unobtrusive in-wall speaker.

In trying to compare apples to apples, using Monitor Audio as an example, the GR-10 is their best bookshelf and the Gold CP is their in-wall equivalent. The GR-10 is an excellent speaker pair at $2000.00 and the in-walls at $1300.00 are a great compromise. For serious listening, I agree that there is no in-wall that will do, however they perform quite well for home theater.

Originally I thought of all in-wall speakers for home theater and keep the GR-60s in for critical listening. Triad sells an in-wall dipole that is quite nice. Basically, the nicer the in-wall speaker, the more expensive they get.

I would like to see Axiom put together a "wall theater" system comprised of their new in/on wall speakers and the QS4s or QS8s.

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