Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Axiom VP-150 or a better center

I've read some comments on this site and others about the VP-150, and was wondering if there is another speaker out there that matches well with the M80ti?

Paradigm comes to mind, but any ideas on what is a good replacement for that speaker?

David, you may have noticed that I have a general preference(haven't heard a VP150)for vertical centers(if any), so I'll again suggest that the speakers that match best with M80s are those using the same configuration of drivers for mids and tweeters. Depending on space available this could be anything from an M2, M22,or M60 up to another M80.

Certainly agree with John;

Some of us of the M50 persuasion use an M3 as center with great success.

I can't figure this one out. The drivers are the same and these center channels should work. I really have to wonder if the cabinets are undersized.

The VP-100 is essentially a M22ti:

Millennia M22ti Specifications
Max Amp Power 200 Watts
Min Amp Power 10 Watts
Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz) 60-22K
Freq Resp +3dB/-9dB (Hz) 50-22K
SPL in Room 1w/1m 93 dB
Anechoic SPL 1w/1m 89 dB
Impedance 8 Ohms
Woofer 5.25" Dual
Tweeter 1"
Dimens. (in.)(HxWxD) 19.7 x 7.3 x 8.5
Weight (lbs) each 16 lbs

VP100 Specifications
Max Amp Power 200 Watts
Min Amp Power 10 Watts
Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz) 95-22K
Freq Resp +3dB/-9dB (Hz) 65-22K
SPL in Room 1w/1m 93 dB
Anechoic SPL 1w/1m 89 dB
Impedance 8 Ohms
Woofer Dual 5.25"
Tweeter 1"
Dimens. (in.)(HxWxD) 7.5x17x7.5
Weight (lbs) each 14.1 lbs

Notice that the VP-100 is slightly smaller than the M22ti with the same driver compliment and with different frequency responses.

One of the best center channels I have ever heard was the Paradigm reference center. It is an unusually large center channel speaker (fact is it is huge for a center channel). What it tells me is that for those who would use a single full range speaker (if you had a pair of M60s and used another M60 as a center) you would have a very seamless front soundstage that you'd be happy with.

I think when center channel speakers first came out they were usually smaller than their full-range left and right counterparts. The main idea was to have e speaker that would reproduce dialogue and for the most part, that frequency range is very limited. theoretically most center channels should be adequate for this task. A lot of center channels ended up being anemic and not "full range". To my ears, Paradigm is one company that has done it right.

VP150 Specifications
Max Amp Power 400 Watts
Min Amp Power 10 Watts
Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz) 85-22K
Freq Resp +3dB/-9dB (Hz) 50-22K
SPL in Room 1w/1m 95 dB
Anechoic SPL 1w/1m 91 dB
Impedance 6 Ohms
Woofer Triple 5.25"
Tweeter Dual 1"
Dimens. (in.)(HxWxD) 7.5x26.5x7.5
Weight (lbs) each 21.8 lbs

Paradigm Studio CC-570 Center
4-driver, 3-way Center Channel, MagnaShield™ (all finishes)
3rd-order electro-acoustic at 2.4 kHz 3rd-order electro-acoustic at 350 Hz (bass drivers)
25-mm (1 in) S-PAL™ satin-anodized pure-aluminum dome, ferro-fluid damped/cooled. Die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS/SHOCK-MOUNT™
102-mm (4 in) MLP™ mica-polymer cone, 25-mm (1 in) voice coil, ferro-fluid damped/cooled. AVS™ die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS/SHOCK-MOUNT™
–
Two 178-mm (7 in) mineral-filled polypropylene cones, 38-mm (1-1/2 in) voice coils. AVS™ die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS/SHOCK-MOUNT™
37 Hz (DIN)*

On-Axis (0°) ±2 dB from 60 Hz - 22 kHz
Off-Axis (30°) ±2 dB from 60 Hz - 20 kHz
91 dB / 88 dB
15 – 200 watts
150 watts**

Compatible with 8 ohms
29 L / 1.0 cu ft
24.1 x 67.3 x 33 cm
9-1/2 x 26-1/2 x 13 in
20.5 kg / 45 lb each

The Paradigm center is constructed essentially as a horizontal full-range speaker that is "similar" in function to a M60 speaker.

I wonder if it is a matter of increasig the size of the VP-150 enclosure or creating a new VP-200 (seems to be the buzzword around here for a new center) that is essentially a M60 converted to a center channel configuration.

I have been examining the same question. I wondered about an M3 with an M2 run in parallel horizontal TWWT. Or 2 M2s or M3s horizontal TWWT.

I think a VP200 might be the answer, but in the meantime maybe 2 M3s now that could be used as office speakers later.

In reply to:

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I think a VP200 might be the answer, but in the meantime maybe 2 M3s now that could be used as office speakers later.

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A pair of M3s for M50, M60 or M80 owners and four M2s for M22 owners.

I plan on getting the on-wall speakers (W22s) but the talk of the centers disturbs me for no concrete reason. I am cutting into wall to mount these so it has to sound excellent.
I suspect the W150 would work but I want to crossover at 70Hz (80Hz at the highest), not 90Hz.

Bruce, I think that the main difference is that the center channels are sealed boxes, not ported.

I tend to agree. The M22 has the same drivers as the VP100, but the cabinet and port give it the lower freq.

Bruce - The Paradigm you mentioned is an excellent center channel. Keep in mind, though, that the Studio 100 mains, 570 center, 4 x 470 surrounds and a single Servo 15 will set you back about $7000 U.S.

For about $2500 less, you can get an Epic 80 "7.1" Channel system with the EP-600 subwoofer and dual VP-150 centers. By going with Dual VP-150's, you actually get a better presentation of vocals, and a HUGE step up in dynamics.

That ($2500) is a LOT of DVD's ... or a nice Receiver !

Darnit Craig, now you got me thinking about ordering a second VP150. lol



Sutter

Bottom line seems to be; for a lot of folks at least, a center capable of getting comfortably down to at least 60hz.

Not everyone is excited at crossing at 80 and perhaps missing something.(I cross at 60 and like what I hear thru my single M3 in a 16X27 room)

Maybe someone should start a poll and see just how many Axiom fans would like a newer style center.

Good idea, I just created one. I'm interested to see what the out come will be, although I've got a pretty good idea based on the many discussion pretaining to this topic.


Sutter

I am actually thinking of going with two W22s on either side of my fireplace instead of my VP150.

I can't speak to the Axiom Center channels (although I do own an EP500), but in my opinion there is nothing wrong with crossing the center over at 80hz. I currently own M&K 850 speakers and they are sealed and don't go below 80hz. I like the center much better than the Polk LSiC and the Monitor Audio Silver center I previously owned and both of which went down to around 50hz. If the Axiom Center channels are designed well (and I am sure they are), I wouldn't stress about needing to cross them over any lower.

I personally have no issues with vp-150 now that I have the Yamaha, and was able to eq separately. I had a Nad before, and with the NAD I couldn't even add bass or treble to the center, only the front left/right speakers. And NAD isn't the only one to do that unfortunately

I'm now considering going with presence channels up front above the m80's. My setup is a bit awkward for 7.1, but 5.1 with presence would be easy to do with the RXV-4600. Two VP-150's, one below screen, one above screen also has a nice ring to it as well, but I don't need it.

In reply to:

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Keep in mind, though, that the Studio 100 mains, 570 center, 4 x 470 surrounds and a single Servo 15 will set you back about $7000 U.S.

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Oh, absolutely. I guess it comes down to "you get what you pay for" but at the same time, arguably the difference in cost does not quite justify the small extra performance (law of dimishing returns).

Perhaps a ported VP-100 (or W-100 in my case) might be an option?

One interesting thought.....Noticing how many folks are purchasing EP500 and 600s instead of SVS and Hsu these days; I wonder how many system sales have been lost to Axiom in the past due to not having a(probably more expensive)center chanel in the line up?

I, personaly, found a significant difference in going from a center that was rated down to 80hz, crossed at 80, to my M3 which I cross at 60. I no longer have a voice component sneaking into my sub, and I do find an increase in information being presented thru the center that was missing before on familiar DVDs. Maybe more of a "Presence" sort of thing. Things just seem to be more anchored to the screen.

But a larger center seems to be capturing the attention of a large group of Axiom fans. Maybe it would capture a few more "on the fence" outsiders.