Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions HDTV cable card

I have a Samsung DLP HDTV ready TV that has a cable card slot. I currently run the TV off our cable company with not so amazing results. I keep hearing that I can get a cable card from them and it will make a big difference on HDTV broadcasts. I tried the rabbit ears but that didn't really help.

Anyone else have this issue? Has anyone gotten a cable card from their cable company and if so, has it helped?

Is going to one of the sattelite vendors the better answer?

Hope everyone had as great a Christmas as I did and blessings to everyone for 2006!!!

Thanks,
Charlie

What is your distance from TV stations? I am 40-45 miles from 6 stations and had to put a data antenna on the chimney.

Also. My cable co. (Charter) sends crap over the wire. I can't zoom in on it without making it worse. I have a basic cable, no box. The cable card uses your tv tuner so it might be better with the card instead of the box.

I'm various distances from the stations but probably 20-30+ miles away. I didn't try the antenna outside or in the attic.

I guess that the first question is whether you are actually getting HD stations through your cable or are they just SD? I have Comcast cable. The SD channels look good but the HD channels have the WOW factor.

You probably will need an outside antenna for good over the air reception.

Try your cable company to see if they support cable card. It's a cleaner solution if you don't want to deal w/ new cables and a dish. I use Directv and their HD Tivo btw.

Go to antennaweb.org to see what kind of stations you can receive.

Just got a cable card and got rid of our box. What a difference. I cannot believe what I'm finally seeing on this TV. Most of the SD channels are crisp and the HD is more than I can even describe. Finally, I am getting what I paid for in the TV. Wow what a picture!!!! We have just been sitting on the couch all afternoon looking at the picture on different channels!! haha.. Can't do this forever but it sure has been fun today!!!

Recommendation-get a cable card if you can and get rid of the cable box.

Glad that you solved your problem.

However, I am wondering about two things. Who is your cable provider?

And, I am surprised that you noticed a difference with a cable card!!!! With the proper setup and cabling, there isn't supposed to be any difference between a cable card and a cable box. At least, that is what I have been told by several sources and what I have read. I would like to know why you are seeing a difference.

Rat,
Time Warner is my cable company here in Houston. I had a regular box so that was the reason for no HD reception. Having the regular box might have impacted the reception for SD broadcasts also, I don't know. I could have gone with an HD box or a cable card and chose the card because it was $5 a month cheaper.. All I know is that with the card instead of the regular cable box, most, 90%, of the SD channels are at least 10 times crisper. Of course the HD is beyond description!!

Ratpack,

If you use an external HD cable box, it will function as the system's SD and HD Tuner, bypassing the Samsung's internal HD tuner. In fact, there are significant differences in the quality of outboard cable boxes' tuners and scalers/deinterlacers.

Cable-card ready HD sets have internal HD tuners, which may be superior or inferior to an outboard cable box's.
In my own case, my Samsung is an HD-ready set that lacks the internal HD tuner, so I must use an external HD cable box to receive HD channels.

The previous outboard cable box I used, a Pioneer Voyager supplied by Time-Warner had really mediocre quality on SD and non-HD channels. The replacement, a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR with two internal HD tuners, is much superior to the Pioneer HD box. My non-HD and SD channels are mostly quite good. HD performance of the two different outboard cable boxes is similar, although the Scientific Atlanta is more versatile in a number of respects.

So it's likely that in the case of the cable-card ready Samsung, its internal HD tuner/scaler is superior to the outboard box that Time-Warner had previously supplied.

Regards,

Alan,
My Samsung is an '05 model and has an internal HD tuner which apparantly works great based on the picture we're getting. I have not had an external HD box so I can't compare it to the card but I can't imagine the picture on HD channels being any crisper than it is with the tuner. I'm just glad that I went with the card after many conversations and hours with some inept cable customer service folks....

Alan: thanks for the description. It makes sense that different cable boxes may provide different performance.

I don't use a cable card or a cable box with my Sony. I just use the internal tuner with the cable. The TV upconverts the SD stations to 1080P and the HD 720P or 1080I are upconverted to 1080P.

The upconverted SD stations look good, but the HD station look GREAT. The WOW factor is really there.

These aren't the long awaited cable cards that TiVo's been holding out for, are they?

Oh please oh please oh please standalone HDTiVo...

No, I'm not using either a cable card or a cable box!!!

Ratpack,
I'm curious why you're not having to use a box or card with your cable. I wonder if I can do that? hmmm.

Charlie

Well, I don't use a box or card with my cable... because I've got good ol' analog cable!

Rat, I was just sort of tagging onto the chain of posts...

cgolf: I have something a little "fishy" going on. I have ComCast cable.

When I first got my SXRD and went through setup there was an autoprogram feature. I used this to automatically capture all of my cable stations.

When it was through (took about an hour), I scanned through the channels to see what it found. It had all the usual channels. However, at about channel 100, it found a bunch more that were not whole channel numbers like 88 or 87 or 89. They were 104.1, 104.5, 112.7, etc.

On these series of .XX channels I had NBC, CBS, FOX, TNT and PBS high definition reception. No ABC or ESPN HD. I called ComCast and asked the rep for a complete listing of these channels because I wanted to make sure that I had them all. The rep had NO idea of what I was talking about. Next day, I called again and talked to a different rep. Same story. What a bunch of BS!!

Well, earlier this week, I heard that the local ComCast has now started broadcasting ABC HD on channel 180. So, I did another complete autoprogram, and, sure enough, I now get ABC HD on channel 92.15.

I really don't know what is going on because the ComCast reps know nothing about it YET IT IS THERE!!!!

Go Figure??????

You might try autoprogram and see what you get with your TV.

I have to agree with Ratpack here. My 50 SXRD is picking up signals of broadcasts higher than the tier I pay for. Now Charter does not have HD digital in my area, so I just get more digital. Charter is also rebroadcasting analog signals as digital feeds.

Anyone else notice this without a cable card or cable box?

I can confirm that I have seen a difference between using a cable box and hooking the cable directly to my HDTV.

I just got a Panasonic TH-42PX50U Plasma HDTV and before Comcast could get out to add the HDTV box I hooked the cable directly to the TV. Well all was good I got all my channels and then some as the TVs SD and HT tuners pulled in all the channels and even some digital channels I was not subscribed to.

After the comcast Motorola HD cable box was added I
was watching E-Ring in HD on a Local Broadcast Channel. I notice severe pixialation and blocking during fast action scences that I had never seen before.

So I am going to get the cable card installed as this will allow me to use the TVs tunners and not the Cable Box. By the way in my area the cable card is free.

I need to figure out how to keep the Cable box so I can use the On Demand functionality of the Cable box if this will be possible if not I will move the box upstairs to another TV.

Hope this info helps

I have read quite a bit on cable cards and cable boxes, even though I don't have or use one.

I agree with Alan that there can be differences between the many brands of cable boxes and cable cards because of the differences in tuners. Not all are created equal.

But, I have also seen many comments about poor picture quality that ended up being a function of wrong settings between the cable box and the TV. I would read the cable box instruction manual a couple of times and then "play" with the settings.

By the way, how are you connecting between the cable box and the TV?

If you want to use both a cable box and a cable card, all you need is a cable two-way splitter. One of the splitter ends goes to your cable box and then whatever connection from the cable bax to the TV. The other splitter end goes directly into your TV cable input.

All of this presumes that you have multiple inputs for your TV (cable, HDMI, component, etc.).

I have to leave but will get back to you with full details

---- But, I have also seen many comments about poor picture quality that ended up being a function of wrong settings between the cable box and the TV. I would read the cable box instruction manual a couple of times and then "play" with the settings. ------

Not to much to play with here I have the option of specifing
Y Pb Pr Output resolution. Options are 1080i 720p 480p and 480i it is set to 1080i

--- By the way, how are you connecting between the cable box and the TV? ----

I am using the component video type (Y Pb Pr)

--- If you want to use both a cable box and a cable card, all you need is a cable two-way splitter. One of the splitter ends goes to your cable box and then whatever connection from the cable bax to the TV. The other splitter end goes directly into your TV cable input. ---

This is not going to be as easy as it seems. I agree with adding a splitter but will use a tap instead as I can avoid the 3.5 db signial loss by using a tap.

The real issue is going to be with the audio as I need to run the optical digital output from the TV to my receiver when I run the cable directly into the TV.

With the cable box the the audio is hooked up between the cable box and the receiver. So I need to figure this one out.

The TV has one optical output and one regular RCA audio type output.

I think I will be able to run the optical audio output from the TV to the receiver TV audio input for the cable card path.

With the cable box I will use the other audio output from the TV to the Cable box.

This stuff gets complicated quick

Thanks Jerry

Getting a cable card and getting rid of the cable box (SD) was a great thing to do. We could have gotten a HD box but I like the direct connection to the TV. Don't have to worry about more cables, etc. The picture is great except for a few SD stations. We ran the auto setup and got all the channel listings updated so the only thing we can't do without the box is order movies. Never did that anyway!! Haven't been able to pick up any "extra" channels yet but I'm still searching...:-)

Jerry:

1. Try setting the output to 720P and see what happens.

2. Have you tried a different set of component cables? Maybe you could borrow a set and see if it makes any difference.

3. Most of the cable company's signals are strong enough where a 3 dB loss due to a splitter will make no difference.

4. If your audio receiver has multiple optical inputs, run one from the cable box and one from the TV. All of the cable box's that I have seen have a seperate audio out, so this may not be an issue for you. My old Kenwood only has one optical input and it is becoming an issue with me.

The cabling may get a little complicated, but it shouldn't be too tricky.

I will give the 720P a try it is hard to test as the quality is normaly very good just in certain content does it display the problem.

I do have another set of cables so I could give that a try.. Major pain because the equipment is in a hutch and I need to move the monster away from the wall to access the cables...
I really wonder if this is going to make a difference though cables I am using came from Comcast...

On the splitter I know this but have already split the signal.

I do have multiple optical inputs so I can give this a try
The TV has one optical out and one RCA two wire output for audio to the AVR

Well until I get Comcast back out here I can not really do anything else.

JerryJ and Rat:

You should always set the output of your external HD cable box to the native resolution of your HD set. For most fixed-pixel arrays, like your Panasonic, that would likely be 720P. But check your Panasonic's specs to see what its native resolution is.

Doing that eliminates a further conversion by your Panasonic's internal scaler from 1080i to 720p.

Regards,

Alan
The native res on my TV is 1024 X 768 so what would you advise for me to set it at 720P or 1080i?

HDTV Compatibility 480p/720p/1080i

HDTV Compatibility Defined by Panosonic
Determines the types of high definition signals that a TV is capable of displaying. An HDTV monitor can accept signals in either 480p or 1080i format, with some models upconverting 480p to 540p for display. Some models can also accept 720p natively.

So it looks like the TV can accept 480P 720P or 1080i natively

Thanks Jerry

Hi,

I'd set it to 720P, which is closest to its native resolution of 1024 x 768. In theory, the less scaling (conversion) that the Panasonic has to do to make the input signal "fit" its 1024 x 768 pixel array, the better.

You can always try the 1080i setting and compare it to the 720p setting to see if there's any improvement with one or the other.

Regards,

Alan: I agree. Native resolution should be the target for your setup!

Unfortunately, that is not always possible. For example, my SXRD has its "native resolution" as 1080P. To the best of my knowledge none of the SXRD's inputs will accept anything "higher" than 1080I. There have been some reports that the PC input will take 1080P, but that remains an issue.

My Sony has a banner on the top that indicates what the cable content is broadcasting. In my Comcast case, it varies from channel to channel. It could be 1080I or 720P for HD and then 480 for SD. All of the signals, HD or SD, are "converted" by the Sony to 1080P.

The HD channels, no matter whether they are 1080I or 720P, all have the WOW factor.

I get the ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX channels both in SD and HD. Whether they are broadcasting in HD or not, all of them look better on the HD channel, rather than the SD channel. That may have something to do with the SD channels being analog and the HD channels being digital, I am just not sure yet.

For what it is worth, just a few observations thus far with HDTV.