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#126465 - 02/02/06 02:17 PM What frequency is considered "punchy bass"?
cameron Offline
veteran

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 117
I have m60's with a svs box with 2 12" (I forgot the model name). Movies sound great, but I am more of a music guy. I love the sound for the most part, but I would love to get a more puchy feel to the bass. If I turn up the sub too much or use the bass extention on the reciever I get too much bloaty bass, but if I leave everything flat it sounds thin. Either way I get no punch/feel to the music. I am considering using an eq again but I don't know what freq the punchy stuff is at.

I listen mostly to metal, but some of it is recorded very well such as Opeth and Dream Theater so I know it's not just the recordings of my music.

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#126466 - 02/02/06 02:29 PM Re: What frequency is considered "punchy bass"?
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
How do you have your speakers setup and crossover? I could be wrong, but I would say around 80hz and up is where you get the punchy tight bass. I've heard others say anything below 80hz is non-directional, meaning you can't tell where it is coming from, only feel it...
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#126467 - 02/02/06 02:39 PM Re: What frequency is considered "punchy bass"?
LightninJoe Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Portland, OR
If you really want to, go ahead and play with eq between 60 and 80Hz. Bumping 60 up will give you a little more thump. If you fiddle a little you should find a sweet spot somewhere between 70 and 80Hz that will give you that "hit in the gut" feeling, which is what I imagine you are looking for. BUT I would first try playing with the location of your subwoofer. There is quite a bit of information on how to place your sub to get nice tight bass without "bloom" or "bloat."
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"That's some catch, that Catch-22." "It's the best there is." M22ti VP150 EP350 QS8 M3Ti

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#126468 - 02/02/06 02:54 PM Re: What frequency is considered "punchy bass"?
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8143
Loc: Tacoma
Mark beat me to it. I noticed a very substantial improvement in the quality of bass when I moved my subwoofer out of the corner of the room. Placement is really important.
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#126469 - 02/02/06 04:46 PM Re: What frequency is considered "punchy bass"?
jinhan Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 156
It sounds like you have a null or peak in your frequency response.

How did you determine your optimal subwoofer placement? If you want to see what's going on, you can measure your sub's frequency response using a bass CD and an Radio Shack SPL meter.

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#126470 - 02/02/06 05:19 PM Re: What frequency is considered "punchy bass"?
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 851
Loc: Toronto
It sounds like you have room node issues and/or your sub placement needs work. Another problem is that the SVS subs are known to have a mid-bass frequency hump which can be accentuated by your room. I would use the crawl method to find a better place for your sub. Usually one third of a wall-length across the frontwall or sidewall gives better response but less room gain. The SVS subs are known to have unlinear response below 24hz which need equalization as well. You may need to think about basstraps or an equalizer if you can't find the right placement. I uses an SMS equalizer to get rid of room nodes at the sweet spot and strive for flat FR for the best sound quality. Or do what I did and buy the EP Axiom subs that way you don't need to worry about lumpy response from the subs.
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John

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#126471 - 02/02/06 06:05 PM Re: What frequency is considered "punchy bass"?
cameron Offline
veteran

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 117
Thanks for the help guys, it's been awhile since I've posted here (although I'm a frequent lurker).

I will try your suggestions other than (hopefully) buying a new sub! I run my mains as large and send the bass to both the mains and the sub. I know this is a no no, but the bass sounds even weaker if I don't and I have to crank up the sub much louder to get the same effect. I have tried the sub in many different places, but my favorite and current position is right next to the couch (sweet spot) and it doubles as an end table (a big ass end table).

I've tried using the bass boost on my Yamaha rxv3000 receiver, but that doesn't do the trick either.

I think I want more kick than what is there or something. I usually run the sub at anywhere from +6 to even +10 db, and when I try just using the mains the bass sounds anemic. I'm not blaming the axioms because I use to have 15" woofer Cerwin Vega's as my mains and they had little bass when everything was 'flat' with no sub as well.

My problem is that I'm a constant tweaker. I think I have everything set the way I want and that I'm finally happy, and then I start wondering if I could make it better. The mids and highs sound fantastic right now, and overall the bass is good too - it's just that I want more tight punch to go along with the nice foundation of bass.

I keep hearing now from reviewers that sub x has more "punch" than the svs which is frustrating to hear. Where were these reviews a couple years back when I bought my sub? Back then svs ruled the world!

BTW, one tweak I did that made a huge difference for me was to move the speakers further apart. The were about 8 feet apart and now they are almost 12. I sit 13 feet from them, and this move really opened up the soundstage. Plus nothing sounds harsh anymore, even old metal albums.

Gotta go, baby's crying. I'll ramble more later.



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#126472 - 02/02/06 06:16 PM Re: What frequency is considered "punchy bass"?
thyname Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 552
Loc: Oakton, VA
That's exactely the feeling i have with my axioms and my newly purchased REL sub!! My music is metal too. However, sometimes if sounds just right, but not so often.
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Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3

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#126473 - 02/02/06 06:27 PM Re: What frequency is considered "punchy bass"?
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6717
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Some M80s and a Hsu sub will solve that problem
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#126474 - 02/02/06 07:05 PM Re: What frequency is considered "punchy bass"?
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 851
Loc: Toronto
Without knowing your room lay out or your equipment I would guess you have a big time phase issue with your mains and subs as a result of placement. ie lots of cancellation of LF sound waves. I would also not recommend running the full mains + sub. Your asking for uneven response across the band and loads of intermodulation and harmonic distortion to muck up the upper range in the mains. Ouch.

I run my mains full as well and spend days moving subs and experimenting until I found the spot where they blended best with the mains. It doesn't sound like that spot is where you currently have your sub. And I bet you are sitting in a trough node.

As an alternative I would cross the mains as low as you can say 40hz and then try moving the sub around. Also take a tape measure and try to get the mains equidistant from each other and the main sitting position. Toeing in makes them brighter while straight ahead is better for imaging so check those out.

I have an Svs Ultra as well as 2 600s and 2 500s though my brother has carted off a 600 for now. The EPs are better performers with more output so if all else fails consider selling the SVS or just buy an ep500 and go the dual sub route. They actually blend well together because of their close tuning points.
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John

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