Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions mono blocks

I have a denon 4802r with pre-outs. Now my plan is to start a 2-ch system with a set of mono's first. So initially i would setup in my HT and run my m60's with the amps. Is this possible or would I have to unhook the amps to watch movies and then hook them up again to listen to 2-ch music? Or can I leave them always hooked up and then my fronts would then be always powered by the amps and the rest of my speakers powered by the denon?

With monoblocks is there a separate volume control or would my receiver control all five speakers and the amps?

Sorry if these are dumb questions.

I guess I'm basically asking how mono's operate/function when hooked up to my pre-outs.

edit - Sorry I should mention that I have not chosen a brand yet but it will be a mid-higher end amp

no dumb questions...

The receiver controls the volume. You just use the pre-outs for the main L & R channels and hook the monoblocks up to that. You'll need to re-calibrate your levels, of course, but that's all there is to it. Everything else will work the same as you expect, whether it's 2-channel or full surround.

I believe the AVR will still do all the decoding/processing of the signal, the Monoblocks are just amps, so they would be powering the mains, and the AVR built in amps would be powering the rest of your setup.

My question is why do you think you need mono's?

My 2805 drives my 7.1 system with no problem at insane volume levels.

Thanks Peter, any recommendations on a company?

I did a search and saw some talk about Odyssey, maybe Bryston?

Any suggestions are appreciated

If you really think you need mono's, I would recommend http://www.outlawaudio.com . Many Axiom owners have Outlaw products, and they are a great company like Axiom that deals direct to the customer, no middle man. For the price, their mono's are second to none.

"If you really think you need mono's"


This would just be the foundation of a 2-ch (maybe 2.1) to come. I definitely don't need them for my HT.

So how long until the M100's come out?

re: outlaw

I might be missig it, but all their amps look multichannel except for the m-block m2200.

I was thinking a little bigger around 300 watts at 8 ohm

This is a real nice amp based on monoblocks in a chassis configuration. You can start with 2-channel and add channels as needed.

I have Outlaw M200 monoblocks which are the older model of Outlaw's M2200 product.

Warren, although your question mainly relates to appropriate amplifiers, there's an underlying theme which draws a comment: why would you intentionally limit yourself to using only two speakers? If you have a multiple speaker setup now you should consider making the best use of all of them, even with two-channel source material, through the excellent ambience steering available(e.g. DPLII, Logic 7, Neo:6).

Hi John,yes the underlying theme is that sometimes I prefer 2-ch music. I will definitely be keeping my multi-channel set-up.

Over time i would replace my ep-175 with probably the ep-500
and the 175 would go to the 2-ch room.

I would still need a set of speakers for the 2-ch room ( m100's?)

The reason for this is that I could (and sometimes do ) "tie" up the HT for hours listening to music. So to share/compromise I may have to have a music room.

I blame Axiom for turning me into an audio junkie

I'm starting with the amps because I have a good set of speakers (60's) to run and I can't afford to do the whole shot at once. Hopefully the g.f. is too busy watching movies to notice the cost of the 2-ch system

Your Denon 4802 has more than enough power to drive the M60s at ear splitting levels. If you still need monoblocks, Parasound and Odyssey make highly regarded and very expensive monoblocks. The Outlaw M2200s are far far cheaper, but still considered very good. If you are on a budget, consider the pro-amps discussed here: :-)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=06b4076ce1ab0655b536ca03e293eb8a&t=418666&page=1&pp=30

I agree Richie, that was my points earlier in the thread, just use the AVR you have for both, heck your driving 4 80's with your Denon...

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Your Denon 4802 has more than enough power to drive the M60s at ear splitting levels.

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Ya know I have read that so many times and beleive me it's not always true. One persons loud may not be the same as others.

I know of a guy that was running a Rotel 100 watt receiver with some M60s. He kept blowing the tweeters out pushing the amp so hard it was going into clipping. The end result was he got rid of the M60s went with the M80s powered by a Rotel RB 1080. With that combo he has yet to run into trouble when playing his music to what he considers loud. He has had this system up and running for right around a year now.

Yes Rick, but I understand that he now listens with split ears.

and a Whisper 2000 Hearing Aid.... aaaaah haaaaa.

Could be John but the last time I spoke with him he was totally content with the system. Before the switch he had told me he was just about ready to scratch the whole stereo system. At least now he has a system he can use at the levels he wants without fear of the thing breakin down.

The denon IS plenty powerful enough. The thing is i'm a 85% music 15% movies/tv person. My Daughter and my girlfriend are 98% movies/tv and 2% music.

The "music" system will be mid-high end, and volume won't matter nearly as much as resolution. (not sure if that's the right word). Anyways, I'm pretty new to this, so there will be alot of research and hopefully auditions (hard to get where I live) before I make any purchases.

So just to clarify, this will be a totally separate (no pun intended) system from my current setup. Does anyone else have a music only setup to go with their HT?

I highly recommend checking out Odyssey. Give Klaus a call (he's not really big on emails). He may even have some "b" stock that you could get for real cheap. Regardless, he makes some really nice amps, and charges a very fair price for them.

I will echo Spiff's comments. I have an Odyssey Khartago amp and absolutely love it. Klaus is very fair and won't try to sell you anything you don't need.

Other than OUTLAW, is there a similar company you can recommend for price-performace value?

Also, I have this question. I want to control the volumes individually and swiftly by sliding potentiometers for 10 speakers + 1 subwoofer. I would maybe use a Mackie 16-channel mixer for this.

QUESTION: Where would I interface the mixer for individual speaker volume controls? In-between the incoming audio signal and the preamp/processor? Or in-between the pre/amp processor and the power amplifiers?

Connections would be via XLR-IN and XLR-OUT.

Thanks!

Hi,

Besides Outlaw, look at Anthem (owned by Paradigm), which has two different lines, as does Parasound. Parasound's Halo line is expensive. With Anthem, it's the "Statement" line that's more expensive.

Regards,

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Also, I have this question. I want to control the volumes individually and swiftly by sliding potentiometers for 10 speakers + 1 subwoofer. I would maybe use a Mackie 16-channel mixer for this.

QUESTION: Where would I interface the mixer for individual speaker volume controls? In-between the incoming audio signal and the preamp/processor? Or in-between the pre/amp processor and the power amplifiers?

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I'll admit, I've got a cold and my head is a little (very) hazy... you'd want to use something like the Mackie 1642 to control levels on 10 speakers and a sub? That is, say... in a restaurant to play 5.1 DVD-As between a 5.1 setup in the bar and a 5.0 setup in the restaurant-kind of thing?

You have to do it where you still have it at line level... but where you mix depends on your source and sends. In the case I outlined above, you'd go from the DVD-A player into a pre/pro, which does all the decoding and whatever else you want, then you'd want to go into the board there and then out to the amps.

Of course, you'd then have to find a pre/pro that does balanced XLR outs for each channel including the LFE channel. Might be a tough find.

If I misunderstood what you're looking for, please correct me.

Bren R.

"I've got a cold and my head is a little (very) hazy..."

Bren, Poor You! But all is fogivebn, immediately and automatically! :~))

"you'd want to use something like the Mackie 1642 to control levels on 10 speakers and a sub?"

Yes.

"That is, say... in a restaurant to play 5.1 DVD-As between a 5.1 setup in the bar and a 5.0 setup in the restaurant-kind of thing?"

No. There is one room with many speakers, I want to control individual volumes of these speakers. The screening room will also be used to spatially create 5.1 and 6.1 type of audio mixes for DVDs and Sony HDCAM tapes, and for that of course the physical mixer is a good idea.

Of coruse, I also will have a 19-inch touchscreen LCD monitor there, so I suppose instead of actual, physical line sliders, this controling business can also be done "virtually" on screen. The line-level would have to be broken by the mixer, or slese if I cna get a pre-amp with a PC-based utility program, I can install this and pehaps run individual volumes through the PC (and the touchscreen).

"You have to do it where you still have it at line level... but where you mix depends on your source and sends. In the case I outlined above, you'd go from the DVD-A player into a pre/pro, which does all the decoding and whatever else you want, then you'd want to go into the board there and then out to the amps."

Gotcha. So, PC or DVD or HDCAM or whatever audio signal N first, but this would go directly to the pre-amp/audio processor. Then, take the individual (decoded and "processed" lines ot from the pre-amp via XLR, run it IN & OUT the Mackie mixer (for the volume control and further eQ, as needed), and then on to the power amps.

Do I have this right, Bren?

"Of course, you'd then have to find a pre/pro that does balanced XLR outs for each channel including the LFE channel. Might be a tough find."

Okay, I swear to you I KNEW what "LFE channel" stands for, I just now forgot it!! Would that be... the bass? Please? Well, I would not buy any pre-amp that does NOT have XLR balanced but only unbalanced RCA connections. On the other hand, the more proper way would be to go via AES/EBU digital via XLR into a digital mixer.

Blackmagic Design now has a PCI-e connected external BOB (break-out box) MULTIBRIDGE STUDIO that actually takes IN and OUT 12-independent channels of AES-EBU D-auio via XLR connections!

"If I misunderstood what you're looking for, please correct me."

Thank you again!

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Bren, Poor You! But all is fogivebn, immediately and automatically! :~))

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Thanks!

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No. There is one room with many speakers, I want to control individual volumes of these speakers. The screening room will also be used to spatially create 5.1 and 6.1 type of audio mixes for DVDs and Sony HDCAM tapes, and for that of course the physical mixer is a good idea.

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Just for my own curiosity, you'd be doubling up some positions?

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also be done "virtually" on screen. The line-level would have to be broken by the mixer, or slese if I cna get a pre-amp with a PC-based utility program, I can install this and pehaps run individual volumes through the PC (and the touchscreen).

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Sidenote... everytime I get a broadcast video demo and they do the "flying faders" sine wave... I want to slap the demo-er... "gawrsh... h'yuk... them sliders is movin' by themselves in a wave!!!" *grr*

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Gotcha. So, PC or DVD or HDCAM or whatever audio signal N first, but this would go directly to the pre-amp/audio processor. Then, take the individual (decoded and "processed" lines ot from the pre-amp via XLR, run it IN & OUT the Mackie mixer (for the volume control and further eQ, as needed), and then on to the power amps.

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Exactly.

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Okay, I swear to you I KNEW what "LFE channel" stands for, I just now forgot it!! Would that be... the bass? Please?

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Low Frequency Effects... the number after the "dot" or "point" in 6.1... ie: not bass... bass (<100-200Hz depending on your definition) exists in all channels... LFE denotes the channel mixed specifically for subwoofers.

Bren R.

"Just for my own curiosity, you'd be doubling up some positions?"

I am not quite sure what you mean here... here will be 2x1 or 2x2 front left/right speakers, 2x or 3x center, and 2x2 side surrounds, plus 2x1 rear surround. Incidentally, can one use (larger capacity) regular speakers other than dedicated Axiom surround speakers for surround?

"Low Frequency Effects... the number after the "dot" or "point" in 6.1... ie: not bass... bass (<100-200Hz depending on your definition) exists in all channels... LFE denotes the channel mixed specifically for subwoofers."

Gotcha. So, "bass" is under 100 or 200 Hertz. And what would the "typical" freqency range be that is created for a LFE channel? Assuming other than 20-200 or so.

Axiom urges me to get 2 x EP600 subwoofers @ 600 Watts each. Trouble with this little equation is... THAT IS A FRICKING $3,500 FOR TWO SUBS!!!! Hello!!! ;-))

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I am not quite sure what you mean here... here will be 2x1 or 2x2 front left/right speakers, 2x or 3x center, and 2x2 side surrounds, plus 2x1 rear surround.

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That's what I mean... you'll have a few speakers in each position... a few centres, etc.

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Incidentally, can one use (larger capacity) regular speakers other than dedicated Axiom surround speakers for surround?

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Of course...

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Gotcha. So, "bass" is under 100 or 200 Hertz. And what would the "typical" freqency range be that is created for a LFE channel? Assuming other than 20-200 or so.

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Bass is just the low notes... there is "bass" in every channel (except sometimes surrounds)... LFE is a channel specifically mixed for a sub... they'll artificially add, say, really low engine thrum to a submarine movie for instance. The LFE channel usually doesn't contain any information about 80-100Hz.

Bren R.

p.s. I shouldn't answer these while eating.

Thanka Alan,

Anthem looks interesting, creative audio in Winnipeg carries them and others... may have to take a road trip

If you take the trip here... let me know... always up for meeting others.

Bren R.

will do. Have you heard of that audio store?

Creative? Yeah they've been around forever... used to buy speaker components and drivers from them when I "rolled my own."

Bren R.

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Creative? Yeah they've been around forever... used to buy speaker components and drivers from them when I "rolled my own."

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Dan, the owner (I'm not sure if Garth is a co-owner) has done quite well for himself. He lives in a mansion. I bought lots of equipment from them in the past. (Mirage, Yamaha, Adcom, (cough) Audioquest). I was almost ready to purchase some Monitor Audio in-walls and fancy in-wall speaker cable through them until I found Axiom (and found out how much their markup is on the equipment they sell ).

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(and found out how much their markup is on the equipment they sell ).

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Read that again and it seemed I was implying a large markup on Axiom products. I meant Creative Audio has huge markups. The owners also both drive expensive foreign cars.

Thanks for the heads up Bruce. At the least, they have some good stuff to audition.