Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Question about HT set up

I am going to buy a new surround sound system for my family room but I obviously don't know what I am doing. I have been doing some research and quite a few people like the axiom speakers but they are a little high in price for me.

After reading some reviews, here are my thoughts:

Left/Right: M22ti
Center: VP100 or VP150
Surrounds: QS4 or QS8
Sub: JBL E250p
Receiver: Pioneer VSX 915-K

I chose the JBL because of price, obviously.

Is it worth going to the QS8's and VP150?

Also, what does the Input Impedance mean, since that receiver is 8 and the speakers are either 6 or 8?

As a reference point, my current system is a Bose Lifestyle 5 (pretty old now).

Heath, welcome. If you get the items that you suggest, you can be confident that this will change your lifestyle(Lifestyle?)for the better. Unless your room is very big it wouldn't be necessary to go with QS8s or VP150. In fact, with a tight budget you could consider doing without a center speaker temporarily and letting the M22s form a "phantom" center, which they do very well. If a center speaker is used, I'd suggest an M2, positioned vertically, which would match the M22s very well and have wide and smooth horizontal dispersion.

You don't have to be concerned as to whether the speakers have impedances of 8 or 6 ohms. Despite any cautionary language in the manual the 915 can easily handle those impedances at its 8 ohm setting and will give you audibly flawless amplification.

Welcome Heath,

Keep in mind, most of use ordered our Axiom's from the Factory Outlet on the "Store" link page. You save 10% of Reg. prices, and if you buy 5 or more speakers, you get another 5 %. Maybe that will help with your budget? I like all my speakers to have the same finish, so then you might be able to try one of the Axiom subs..

Do you think the JBL sub will work?

Any other suggestions for around the same price?

FYI...room dimensions:

Listening area: 17' x 14'
Actual room size: 23' x 19'
9 foot ceiling

Also, media nitch faces the kitchen, so there isn't a back wall (except the one in the kitchen). Kind of an open area.

Sure, any sub will work. If your budget is an issue, I"m sure the JBL will be fine. Maybe some others will chime in here with some other options...

What kind of price are you looking at for the JBL sub ? Wouldn't hurt to mention currency, we have the occasional confusing post when different people are talking about different dollars

when I said work, I meant good enough sub with this set up.

maybe spend a little less on the other speakers and more on the sub?

I would hate to spend a couple of grand on everything and it didn't sound that good.

well..amazon has the jbl for $242 but only have 2 left.

Seeing that the sub is a major part of the H/T experiance I would try not to skimp to much on the sub. If you can swing just a bit more look at the SVS PB10, the Hsu STF 2 or the Mirage S12

John,

Looking at Google, Nextag, etc.. it appears the JBL can be found in the lower 200's upto the mid $300 range, lower than the smallest Axiom.

Heath, the subs job is to primarily play the LFE's in movies and accompany your mains for music on frequencies below whatever crossover setting you have set on your receiver. Most decent subs will fill that need. I can't comment on the quality of the JBL sub, never owned that brand. I can say the Axiom speakers are excellant.

Jbl here for 221.00 and free shipping.
Link

Heath, you can do a little better than that on the E250. It's available from reputable outfits for about $220 with free shipping. It should be adequate for your use and I wouldn't suggest getting lesser speakers in order to spend more on the sub. Several excellent subs at higher cost were mentioned already, so I'll throw out one at just slightly higher cost which Dr. Hsu assisted in designing and which has gotten some very good reports.

Thanks for the link.

I am not sure about the JBL myself.

CNET gave it a pretty good review and a friend of mine has the e150p in a smaller room and likes it. Saw a few others post about it as well. Best Buy had it but didn't have it hooked up so I couldn't listen to it.

I have read good things about the SVS and HSU subs as well, just the price might be a little high for me (need to put money into the house as well...can't all be toys. ).

interesting...I will definitely check out that sub.

haven't heard of it.

Heath, if budget is a factor, here is another sub you might consider. It is very new, so there isn't much feedback on it yet, but av123 makes good products, and the customer service is on a par with Axiom's. Both are excellent. It's only an 8" sub so it won't reach quite as deep as the the JBL, and BIC, but it comes close.

X-sub from av123



It's available in white shadow maple as well as in black.

If budget is in your mind...those subs might fit the bill for the time being, but dollar for dollar, the HSU STF-2 and the SVS PB10 are the absolute best for the money. They can be had for a little over $400. The sub is an integral part of a home theater setup. I'm pretty confident if you were to listen to any movie at decent levels, those subs you were considering would start pooping out and getting overdriven.

Actually, I'd highly recommend the system I have. The whole thing, speakers, sub, receiver, and cables came to around $1900. It is truly amazing. It's in my signature below. The receiver was a Yamaha RX-V557. The Yamaha's are a bit more respected than the Pioneers in the audio world. I first thought a pioneer would be the best choice, but for the price, and after looking at many reviews, the Yamaha RX-V557 is an excellent budget choice.

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I'm pretty confident if you were to listen to any movie at decent levels, those subs you were considering would start pooping out and getting overdriven.

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Dan, have you heard "those subs"? I didn't think so. Then how can you say what you are saying? I would not be so quick to dismiss a product with which you have no experience.

No, I've not heard them either, but then I didn't make a definitive statement about them as you did. However, I have owned a HSU STF-2 and I've owned a Rocket UFW-10. I know you like your HSU, and it is a fine sub and a good value. But it ain't the only fine sub and good value. And, at twice the cost, I'm not sure it will deliver twice the value of the x-sub.

If that sub comes with a light that slowly pulses deep inside the port, I'll take one.

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If that sub comes with a light that slowly pulses deep inside the port, I'll take one.

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I want so bad to include the sound effect with that!

Yours is pretty close to what I was looking at. The M22ti's, QS4's and VP100. The receiver looks to be about the same price as the Pioneer so only the sub is more expensive. By my calculation, your setup would run me about 2,300, a little more than I thought. How big is your room that you are using this in, by the way? If I do spend at least 2k, it better sound good in the end. I am always disappointed after spending a lot of money. Picky, I guess.

Heath, I don't think you will be dissapointed in any of the Axiom products you choose. What's just as important is that you stay within the budget you feel most comfortable with, to me that always makes the music sound better

Here's what I got everything for including shipping:

M22's, VP100, QS4's: $1026
HSU STF-2: 412.50
Yamaha RX-V557(from etronics.com): $301.43
Cables from BlueJeansCable: $75

Total: $1814.93

I also bought a Radio Shack SPL meter and an Avia Home Theater Test DVD to calibrate.

You may also want to consider the SVS PB10, a noteworthy competetor to the HSU STF-2 for almost the same price.

My dorm room is 21x9x8. My bedroom at home is 11x11x8. Sound is more than sufficient in each category.

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If that sub comes with a light that slowly pulses deep inside the port, I'll take one.

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It does look like a dwarf Cylon...

WhatFurrer

what is the difference between the yamaha lines?

For instance the yamaha you mentioned and the HTR-5850?

also, for my size room and those speakers, what would be ideal watts per channel?

Heath,
lots of great advice from the regulars on the board here. I'd certainly lean towards what JohnK suggested off the top - consider forgetting about the center channel and go "phantom". The main reason for having a center channel is not improved sound, but that it anchors the sound to the viewing screen. In other words, if you don't have a center channel, and move to say the left side of the room, the voices will appear to be coming from the left speaker - not the tv screen as was intended. However, if you sit at or near the center of the screen without a center channel, the voices will be well anchored in the middle of the screen. That would save you $240 for the VP100 or $385 for the VP150. At the very least it would be worth trying it like this for the first while and if you feel you are missing something down the road, hopefully you'll have the cash to add a center.

The other suggestion i'd make is that you may want to look at the Pioneer receivers a little more closely. The Pioneer VSX-1015TX. Lots of power and features and you should be able to find it just a bit cheaper than similar Yamaha receivers (at least it seems to be here in Canada was $500 Cdn on Boxing Day). Hopefully that will save you antother couple of bucks or so.

Plus make sure to look for you speakers in the Factory Outlet section on the website. That will get you a 10% discount. That is $84 savings on a pair of M22s and QS4s. Speakers would come to $756 + receiver should put you just over the $1000 mark. Leaves you some room to do some sub shopping.

Good luck!

I have read good things about the Pioneer VSX 815 also.

The only difference between the HTR and RX-V lines of Yamaha is the front panel. That's it. The insides are exactly the same.

The RX-V is viewed as the more high quality line, and the HTR line is more easily found in stores, but the quality is exactly the same.

I agree with Sid, the Pioneer 1015 is really well worth the few additional dollars over the 915. It is almost identical to their Elite 52TX receiver and has Mosfet amplifiers unlike the 915 and lower models. Possibly the best value to $$$ ratio in receivers right now.

I am leaning toward the Pioneer 1015 and SVS PB10, assuming I have enough money.

Do these things ever go on sale?

What websites do people use to look for good deals?

The PB 10 can be bought from B stock on ocassion, it a first come type basis.

Heath,
i never did catch which country you hail from - i'm assuming the US after some of the prices you quoted....in which case you'd want to keep you eye on any of these websites - Pioneer Authorized Dealer List. I know Visions & Future Shop (owned by Best Buy) had them on sale over the boxing day period for $100 off. That would be $500 Canadian, which would work out to about $425 US.

before I buy anything, I am still trying to visualize the speaker placement. The sub is easy (corner of the room), center on top of tv (sony 40"), QS4 behind each end of couch.

The left and right speakers are more tricky, though.

My tv is in a media nitch. I don't think I have enough space on each side for the speakers on the stands (7" each side clearance). Also, on the left side of the nitch is my fireplace.

I guess my options are:

- put left, right and center on top of tv
- pull tv slightly out of nitch and place stands next to it
- put left speaker on left side of fireplace (sorry about the wiring), and put more power to that speaker
- somehow mount the speakers to the wall, on on the front right side of the fireplace, the other on the front right side of the media nitch (not sure how that would look)

The general recommendation would be to rotate everything 90 degrees and put that fish tank you always wanted in the media niche. You can still store media there, just move the TV and speakers

my fish tank is in the other room



but assuming I don't change the set up of the room, what then?

Seriously, your second option (pull TV out of niche and place stands left and right) sounds best. You wouldn't need to pull the TV out very far -- the center should normally be a few inches "behind" the main speakers so that all three are the same distance from the listener. Imagine a circle with the listener at the center; all three speakers should be on the circle.

that was my first choice as well.

hope it doesn't look too bad, since when you look into the room, you would see the sides of the speakers and tv now.

too bad you couldn't get mounts for the speakers that were adjustable. mount it to the side of the niche, it had an arm and you could adjust out and away from the wall just where you wanted it.

Dennis (Tharkun) had his center channel on a roll-out shelf. Seemed to work OK...

Pictures are nice.

Hmmm. Couldn't find it in Dennis's site. Maybe it's the amp rack that rolls out, not the center channel. Never mind ;(

John you are right, Dennis did have a M80 on a roll out rack.

You and Rick are both half correct. When I built the HT cabinet I made provisions for a roll out shelf should it be needed. Once the cabinet was finsihed and the M80 was insdie of the cabinet, I did not find a need to build the shelf. I did a lot of comparing the sound with the 80 in and out of the cabinet, and out of about 20 people that heard the system over the months, no one could detect any noticable differance in sound, and this was done at normal levels, so it was not that they sound level was so high thery was no accurate way of telling. LOL

Since it worked out well before, the new design will have even a larger area for the center speaker to be housed in, but if need be, I can always add a roll out for the speaker., will see how it goes.

Also the HT web pages are being updated/changed, so things can be a bit wierd for now....its a spare time thing I'm working on.

The Rock N Haxiom at the bottom of each of my post is a clickable link to the HT pages.

that would assume I knew how to put pics on this site

pretty easy, read the FAQ section, the IMG and /IMG tag is placed at the front/end of your URL path of where you host your pictures.

If you have a website, just use the link for your JPG image, or if you don't, sign up for http://www.photobucket.com it is free for hosting pictures.

That was pretty fast !!

The pictures help a lot. I understand the problem now -- the fireplace is pretty close to the alcove. You could fit M22s on stands but they would have to be right up against the sides of the TV to avoid blocking the fireplace view from the right side of the couch.

That is probably still the best approach... and M22s are DEFINITELY the way to go because of their narrow width.

I can't make out if your TV is a really thin direct view CRT or a rear-projection -- just wanted to be really sure that the M22s wouldn't interfere with your picture if positioned very close to the sides.

I would be thinking hard about taking a Sawzall to the vertical divider just to the right of the TV, but that's why I like to get a second opinion before actually DOING anything

there is nothing thin about that crt, that's for sure.

40" HDTV CRT. Weighs 300 pounds, I believe.

Nice pics, please don't tell me what you paid for that Bose setup.

We need to get you over on the Axiom bandwagon.

I did...a few years ago.

Now it is going into the bedroom.

>>40" HDTV CRT. Weighs 300 pounds, I believe.

Ahh. I thought it looked familiar.

OK folks, is anyone running M22s beside a direct-view CRT ? How close can you get ? Not trying to scare you, just trying to be careful...

it is a Sony KV-40XBR800 if that helps.

The M22ti's are: Video-shielded for maximum placement options

you would think it would be okay

I like John's solution of using a reciprocating saw or similar tool and cutting out the narrow vertical wall between the two nooks. This would allow lots of room for the TV and main speakers. You'd just have to figure out a way of filling in the missing carpet where the wall is now. Perhaps the TV stand could sit over that spot or something.

Just an idea.

Paul

They're pretty well shielded... but the magnet on the M22 tweeter is heavier than your entire Bose system, and the magnets on the woofers are even bigger...

I just found that M2s placed right on top of my cheap 27" CRT caused a bit of fringing... I think "beside" was OK just want to make sure. The VP100 has even more shielding so it's fine even on top...

I had to move my M40s about 7" or so away from my TV. Those two didn't get along very well.

not soo worried about the sub, since it won't be right next to the tv.

as for removing the wall, it might be a good long term solution but it isn't something I will do by the time I buy everything. I doubt I would do the work myself and I barely have enough money for the surround sound as it is, especially since I found out my trip to India might be pushedup 6 months.

With that setup, you are kinda trying to make a home theater out of half a room. It's tough doing that.

In my opinion, moving the TV in front of the window would be a much better option. That way, you can spread out the m22's, get a nice open viewing area instead of a closed off one. You could put one of the QS4's/QS8's above the fireplace, the other one on the other wall.

I'm assuming there is a wall off to the right in the picture. If there is, I think this way would work out perfectly. That is the way most home theaters work out the best, in a long rectangle-ish room.

Having that TV in that little niche is really hard to set up a good audio set up. It's kinda screaming to be moved to an "open" spot.

Good luck! More pictures of your room might help.

I understand what you are saying but moving the tv to the wall with the window wouldn't work that well either.

it would be good for speaker placement but as you noticed, the room is rectangular. I would have to put the couch next to the fireplace (which I wouldn't want to do) and wiring the back speakers would be much more complicated. also, the look of the room would be much more closed off. on top of that, part of the reason I liked this house was that the kitchen over looked the family room, meaning you could watch tv while doing dishes, etc. That would no long be the case if I moved the tv.

ok...but these are the last pics

I see, thanks for posting them.

What others suggested concerning pulling out the TV would be your best bet.

Very nice setup heath.

btw...when I said these are the last pics, I just meant they should encompass the rest of the room. I wasn't being mean or anything. I appreciate all the input.

so...after looking at the pics, is the M22ti's, QS4's, VP100 and a SVS PB10 (or similar sub) the way to go?

Yes, that sounds good.

By the way, what are your walls made out of? They have a very "soft" touch to them.

Looking at the picture again, I would agree that you might want to consider taking out that vertical bar that makes a compartment. It really doesn't look like that space is actually being used, save for a couple pictures.

Heath,

The M22's are one option...

I think that a set of M60's (one in the corner where the plant is and the other in front of the other niche on the left side of the fireplace) would also work...M22's and stands come close in price to the M60's. Given that you pull the TV out some (maybe)...M22's on stands would also work in those locations.

As that is a Sony behemoth (I have the 36" version), you will have no problem putting a VP100 on top...I have a VP150 on top of mine...I would not put it below it to prevent the shelving from "boxing" the sound...I tried it both ways...wound up on top angled down.

QS4's would go well on the wall to the right of the kitchen and possibly on the partial wall near a Blind? Or they could be ceiling mounted as some others have done...

As for the sub, putting it in the niche may be preferred but I would do the "sub crawl" to find the optimum location...it may not be "in the niche" as it possibly is making it more localized by the walls boxing in that niche.

A question: Is this an apartment, single story house, condo...?

Hope this helps.

WhatFurrer

single story house

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single story house

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Then that would make running wiring to new areas somewhat easier...for you, if you are so inclined or for someone you may hire to run the speaker wires...cleaner in the long run (pardon the pun)

WhatFurrer