Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Recommedations: M60ti or M80ti?

Hi. I've received QS8 speakers as a gift and I'm trying to decide on purchasing either M80ti or M60ti speakers for fronts.

The room is 16 ft long by 16 ft wide and it has an 8.5 ft ceiling. There's a bathroom connected to the room and the door to the bath stays closed. The entrance/exit to the room has no door and is therefore always open.

The room has 2 windows. One is 4.5 ft high by 4 ft wide on one wall and the other window is 4 ft high and 3 ft long on another wall.

I listen only to music; the system will not be used for HT.
I listen mostly to classical music and occassionally to The Beatles, Crosby, Still, and Nash, etc.

Any recommedations will be appreciated.

A second question: I have a Yamaha RX-V657 receiver, which is rated at 95 watts. I think I would need an amplifier to supplement the Yamaha receiver to drive the M80ti's, if I purchase them. I have my eye on a BEHRINGER A500 amp. Can any one comment on this combination?

Thank you very much.

The QS8s are really meant for HT setups or DVD-A disks with surround sound music.

Do you listen to any of that?

Anyways, go for the M80s, especially because you probably will not get a sub.

You'll get both sides of the argument in about equal numbers I predict. Yes the M60's will probably be just fine, better than fine, but if you can spare the few hundred extra bucks, why not go for the flagship M80's? If money is a little bit of an issue, then you'll be very happy with th M60's.

I have the M80's, my friend has the M60's, they sound very similar, the M80's have a little more bass. He thinks my M80's sound a little smoother at the high end, I didn't notice that. To me the bass on the M60's sounds a little boomier than the 80's, but still very good. I have not heard the two models together in the same room, so hard to say.

The Yamaha should drive the 80's just fine, a little more power wouldn't hurt though, and if you are prepared to spend the money then go for it. My buddy with the M60's is now wishing he had the 80's only because he can afford the extra cost and why not get the top of the line? so you aren't worried about what you are missing out on?

Both speakers would be a good choice for your room, I would think your Yamaha should have no problems driving the 80's if thats what you choose. If budget is a concern the 60'will do awesome.

I would make sure the 80's can be driven by that Yamaha model, some have had issues handling the 4ohm load of the 80's. In my opinion the 60's would be totally fine. My HT area is 15' x 25' x 9ft ceilings that opens into a 30' x 30' total room. The 60's have no problem with that area.

I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT I HAVE AN SVS 20-39 Pci SUBWOOFER.

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My HT area is 15' x 25' x 9ft ceilings that opens into a 30' x 30' total room. The 60's have no problem with that area.

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You need to hear the M80s in that room

Why did I know that was coming....;)

Because you *really* need to hear the 80's in that room Randy!

I think you two Ricks, are the same person sometimes, ha ha

He'll cave eventually. Keep up the good work, gentlemen...

I keep trying and trying and.....

Just think of all the extra Medium Density Fiberboars that have been killed in order to yield the extra material necessary to create the larger M80 cabinet.

You're doing the animal world a service by sticking with the M60s.

>>> I think you two Ricks, are the same person sometimes, ha ha <<<

No way Jose' ... I'd freeze to death up there in that Arctic Circle where that *other* Rick lives, this Rick needs the tropics like you need the 80s!

Its one thing to get peer preasure from your elders regarding Axioms, but from a Rocket Man, I can't handle it anymore.

Actually, not sure I can convince the wifey as I"m trying to make her understand why I need to build a HTPC and purchase an Un-Raid system from Lime-Technology.

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Its one thing to get peer preasure from your elders regarding Axioms

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Whick Rick are you talkin' about here?

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but from a Rocket Man, I can't handle it anymore.

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Well this rocket man has at least heard the m80's, so I'm one up on ya...

The other Rick is the old one

Pass on the Raid system and just go with the 80s Randy.

BrotherBob

Looks like me and the younger Rick are about to get our taste of some more snow. God I love the Midwest.

Tharkun, it is Un-Raid, not Raid, there is a difference.

That's one pic I didn't need to see . It was a cold and windy rascal here today.

I would recommend the 80s.

Why?

Because if you don't, at some time, you'll be asking yourself why you didn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good point, Rat. And if he does need additional power, an external amp is an option.

I agree with Rat!

Sorry for not adding the "un" and yes, I know the differance.

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Sorry for not adding the "un" and yes, I know the differance

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Sure you do Dennis

whatever happened to the original question ??

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whatever happened to the original question ??

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Axiomites get easily distracted with shiny new things!

Bug: last year when you were experimenting with the Outlaw monoblocks, what were your conclusions between 2 channel (L and R) and 3 channel (L, C, and R)?

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whatever happened to the original question ??

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It's still on page 1

Pardon Rat and I while we talk!

I went with 3 M200s. The center gets the workout in this house. Lots of tv channels that are center channel only, even in PLII Cinema. You can watch the amps and tell if anything is going to the mains. So, I am pleased with the choice of amping the center. It doesn't get the dynamic workout of the mains, but lots of mid midrange.

I just got my M3s today and haven't had a chance to listen to them in the over/under setup. The wife has bridge club tonight so it is quiet in the house. The 3s are run in parallel to the M200 so it is a 4 ohm.

More later.

You can return to regular posting!

Didn't I already say that?

M200? What the hell is that?

Go with the M80's. You have plenty of room and what's another 300 bucks? By the time your done it'll be penuts compared to what you'll have invested........trust me on that one. Just get the biggest, baddest damn speakers you can.

Plus they look down right mean with the grills off - "manly-man" mean!!

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M200? What the hell is that?

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Mike, it is a mono amp made by Outlaw Audio. I has been since replaced by the newer M2200 .

MRM, especially considering the sub that you have, M60s should be more than enough for the size room that you have. Regardless of whether you get the M60s or M80s it's likely that your 657 has more than enough power, so you shouldn't "think" that you'd need supplementary amplification. Unless the 657 would distort audibly or shut down, extra power would be simply unused excess capacity. More power simply means more maximum loudness capability, there are no other benefits that would mysteriously appear.

If you use your QS8s to reproduce ambience from classical CDs, using DPLII, you'll probably find that this significantly increases your listening pleasure.

I was advised by Yamaha not to purchase M80 to run with my RXV1500 and that only thier top of the line model could handle the 4 ohm speakers.

Many on this board are using Yamahas to drive the M80's that aren't flagship receivers. Whether your particular receiver will work is hard to say.

I'll be another lone voice saying get the 60s and use the $400 you saved for something else.

I as well, am "shopping" and i have to wonder about all the m80 reccomendations. reason?

I asked the same about 60 v 80 w/ a yammy rx-v2500 and MORE people said to go with the 60. the 2500 is 130watts a channel 7.1. so this is now confusing.

I understand its human nature to "push" what YOU have yourself, and it seems to have taken over in this thread. or please correct me if i am wrong.

the amount that the receivers in question can drive the 8ohm 60 should be "optimal",but the 4ohm 80? I have to question if 95-130 watts is enough to "optimally" drive a pair of the 80's.

after all who wants "just ok" with a purchase amount this high? I'm sure everyone wants the "optimal" sound from their $$$ investment. I know I sure do

Lastly, those that favor and reccomned that he get the 80's , do you drive them with only 95-130 watts per ch.? and if not what dedicated power amp do use/ reccomend for "optimally" driving the 80's?

I hope my comments and questions are not taken as snide or the like , they are not intended that way. I myself am learning and still considering what to buy, and this has confused me, as my thinking [having a yammy v2500] was 60 mains. It seems the more info I gather the more questions I have and want to learn more. thanks

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It seems the more info I gather the more questions I have and want to learn more

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It only gets worse.

I have the Denon 3805 rated at 120 and M80s work well with it. They work better with the outlaw monoblocks I added across the front.

Some say they would work even better with a multichannel amp to get better imaging and soundstage.

Some say dump the Denon and I'll see real improvement with the Outlaw 990.

On top of that I listened to some $11,000 Wilson bookshelves with $14000 Mark Levison Monoblock amps.

It never ends.

I figure it this way, why not go with Axioms flagship speaker if you can afford to do so. I can't say I have ever heard of anyone that has had the M60s and M80s at the same time going with the M60s.

As far as what I use for mine, I use a Rotel RB1080 @ 300 watts per channel.

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It only gets worse.

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I heard that LOL

hummm. interesting both of u are putting more power than the yammy rec's 95-130 watts, and both say they sound better feeding the m80's mo powwa. There must be a reason, I'll assume they didn't sound as good as expected without the extra wattage being pumped to them. while the 60's being 8ohm, are getting fed the power they need from the yammy amps 95-130 watts

gonna keep me I on dis thread. as my key word is "optimally" , for driving the m80's AND the m60's for that matter.

dying to hear more input on this.

Another recommendation for the Axiom M80 speakers! If money is not a constraint, get the best that Axiom offers today! These are true audiophile speakers at very very reasonable prices.

I used to drive them with a Denon AVR-3805. Now I use slightly more powerful amps listed below. :-)

The 80's and the 60's both sound great with or without more power. The way I see it, the 80's can take a huge amount of power so give em some, I like em loud

Stoney, there's really no such factor as "optimally" powering a speaker. As long as the receiver can deliver as much power as the speakers would need at peaks(which is less than is sometimes thought, especially with the M80s which are slightly above average in sensitivity), nothing more can be accomplished. Keep in mind that, for example, 200 watts represents only 3dB more in maximum sound level than 100 watts; if 100 watts could play a brief peak at say 110dB, 200 watts could play it at 113dB. Unused maximum power capacity is simply that: unused.

I totally agree with those that say get the best if you can afford it. You won't have to upgrade in a short period of time.

My M80s sound great with my Onkyo even though some may question driving 4 ohm speakers with an Onkyo.

Onkyo 703 is not rated to drive 4 Ohm steady-state at full power. But to drive m80 steady-state at 100W, well, it's LOUD. Quick estimate shows that the SPL will be around 108dB at 12 feet, for both speakers. It is rated, though, for a pretty high dynamic power - 170W+170W for 2 front channels at 4 Ohms. I 'd think it's more than enough for faithful peak reproduction.

Like I said, I really like my Onkyo! I looked around for over a year before I bought it. I think that it represents, for me, the best overall receiver value out there.

I don't listen to music/ HT that is really all that loud anyway. It is unusual for me to have sound levels over 90 dB at 12 ft.

Agree. I haven't seen anything that good for that price.

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Stoney, there's really no such factor as "optimally" powering a speaker. As long as the receiver can deliver as much power as the speakers would need at peaks

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thats pretty much what i mean, with saying "optimally" , will the 130watts be enough to drive the m80's "without" loss of quality, at various sound levels. I am no pro but think that , to say it simpy, the sound would break up and distort. where as if fed more watts that it wouldn't break up. I don't crank it up all the time, but when I do I'd like to know that the speakers will sound just as good as they do at lower volumes.

It's funny how I started with the m22's as mains , then up to m60's and am now stuck with regard to going to the m80's. Another thing as the low end is what appears to be the "real world" difference betweeen them. would it make sense to pair 60's with the ep 500 and the 80's with the ep 350? as these pairings would be very close in price?

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would it make sense to pair 60's with the ep 500 and the 80's with the ep 350? as these pairings would be very close in price?

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If I were to choose between the two I would go with the 60's and the 500, there is a much larger difference between the 350 and 500, than there is between the 60's and 80's.

Stone,

It may be the difference between the quality of the outboard amps vs the receiver amps as well as higher rating. The power comes in handy when I am in another room of the house and the 80s are cranked in the HT.

If finances forced a choice between a 60/500 and 80/350, I would go with the 60/500. The 500 is a different animal than the 350.

I have no regrets going with the 80/500 choice.

Oh just get it over with………..get the 80’s, an EP 600 and set of Outlaw mono’s. Your’re going to end up doing that anyway. Might as well ease your suffering now.

The 500 is a great sub. The 600 is better. Very nice sub and much more 'musical' than the 500. I was listening to Audioslave last night in surround at around 100 db with the 80's, 22's, QS-8's, and the 600.......grinning ear to ear. It's times like those that clarify to me why I spend so much money on this stuff.

There's no doubt upgradeitis may set in, it's bitten me several times.

I agree with Homedad, I love my 500 60's combination, it is killer.

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it's bitten

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It's my name!

When did you add the other 498 of them Randy ??

No wonder he says there not much difference. 500 60s compared to 2 M80s

first sorry if it seems I hijacked this thread, just didn't see the point of starting a new one to address the exact same issues. Secondly thanks to all that have replied, I appreciate all input,

upgradeitus? well as I started my shop'n' it was m22 mains, ep350 sub, now its ep500 sub and either m60 or m80 mains. I guess the thing that has stopped me from going with d m80's is the 6ohm and the 130 watts the receiver can feed them, just not thinking its gonna be as good as it can be.

let me present this if I may , remember I am limited in what I have avail to purchase where I live now. so there is a Pioneer amp that has a right and left, at 130 watts a channel. Does it make sense or even be worth it to give the mains the extra "juice"? be it the m80's or even the m60's? would there be a discernable listening difference?

as it is now I am still leaning toward the m60's, ep500(or hsu vtf mII, which is quite a bit cheaper than the ep500) sub, with qs8 rears.

but as it should be apparent by now *to a few of you, anyway *I want to make the most informed buying decisions that I can make. And get the most of my $$$ spent. FINALLY got the irs return so I'm ready $$$ wise, but still having a hard time with just what to get, See where I am it would be cost prohibitive to "simply return them within' 30 days", so I want to be sure I'm getting the best for what I can spend.

I want to thank you all again for the replies so far and those yet to come. Rock On

Imho, 130 watts is more than enough for both the 60's and the 80's unless you listen at earsplitting levels. If you decide you want more power later then you can always go that route.

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Oh just get it over with………..get the 80’s, an EP 600 and set of Outlaw mono’s. Your’re going to end up doing that anyway. Might as well ease your suffering now.

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Couldn't agree more. Once you go separate amps, you'll never go back to just using a standalone receiver. Start off with a good receiver with preamps, then upgrade with separate amps later.

Luis, I love your site, nice setup with some great collectables.

Thank you Sir! It is still needs work, but I'm getting there slowly.