Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Funny or offensive?

As I've been out of still photography for several years and need some updated sample shots, I've been giving myself some self-assignments.

Yesterday, I did a beer shoot and am unsure of whether or not I want to add a bit of humor to it via the text. Some here have said it's funny or cute, others have said that a portfolio/sample shot is not the time to flirt with people's strong feelings on any topic.

I'm planning on reshooting this to add a little more "mist" to the bottle, clean up the logo and maybe put some spurs in the foreground and a Stetson in the background (ISO Props!) but wanted to get some random thoughts on whether or not the text should be different. I realize that feelings will be different across the wide swath that Axiom user's encompass!

If you have a strong opinion that you would rather not post, please PM me!

I don't find it offensive, but I see how some might. Besides, don't cowboys drink Budweiser or Coors?

And if you'd allow me an artistic critique... the strong dark reflection running down the neck of the bottle looks a little odd and distracting. Perhaps a fill flash behind the camera would remedy that?

I really love the grit and texture on the horizontal surface and the overall color of the shot. Nice work!

I have to say the gamble isn't worth it.

For a slight chuckle that may be gained squeezing another joke out of Brokeback, you're risking someone taking offense to it. The movie was one of those things where everyone had an opinion on it, whether they saw it or not... I mean, it's not as offensive as using an image of the crucifixation to sell 10 penny nails but some people are an eye wandering around looking for a thumb.

Bren R.

I think most people with a sense of humor wouldn't find it offensive, but there's also plenty of people who are sensitive toward the subject. Also, put in that context, the neck of the bottle comes across as a phallic symbol (well, to my sick mind anyway! ).

Regardless, that beer looks tasty right about now. I love Killian's Red!

I don't get it.

I agree, I need a beer. Maybe I'll take off work early and stop down to Lucky's.

I'm not sure I get it either, what's the correlation between Brokeback Mountain and Killian's? I could see it keeping some less tolerant soles from drinking the beer for fear of being labeled.

Pretty subtle, so I wouldn't worry. Pretty much anything is going to be offensive to somebody. The theme of the picture makes me think it is probably not a good idea to offer to push someone's stool in at a cowboy bar.

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the strong dark reflection running down the neck of the bottle looks a little odd and distracting.

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Peter:
That bothers me as well and it's one of the strongest reasons I want to reshoot it. I forgot to mention that!

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I mean, it's not as offensive as using an image of the crucifixation to sell 10 penny nails

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You really need to do standup, Bren! It also occurred to me that the Brokeback reference is already getting a bit old, and six months from now won't be relevant at all. If I DO decide to keep the text at the moment, it's likely I'll change it in a few months anyway!

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the neck of the bottle comes across as a phallic symbol

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Mary: I'm shocked! But, ummmm, yeah, the same thought crossed my mind!

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what's the correlation between Brokeback Mountain and Killian's?

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There isn't any. I just wanted to drop in some text and thought that since I was working towards a "cowboy theme"……

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it is probably not a good idea to offer to push someone's stool in at a cowboy bar.

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Shouldn't you be golfing or something???

Bren .... I don't think 10 penny nails would have held.

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the neck of the bottle comes across as a phallic symbol

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Ah, yes. But to paraphrase the late great Sigmund Freud, sometimes a beer bottle is just a beer bottle.

I'm jumping in late, but agree that the Brokeback reference is not worth it and will only grow more tired over time.

Maybe you should subcontract the writing to BrenR or any of the other jokers around here!
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First off, the queers in that disgusting movie aren't cowboys. They heard sheep. Secondly, I doubt anyone would ever drink Killians again that feel as I did about that movie. I made it till the "tent scene" and couldn't find the remote quick enough. I was expecting some off color, too close kinda friendship stuff, but I sure in the hell wasn’t expecting to see gay pornography.

Nice photo though Mark.

"When the Irish get mad, they get Killian's Red"

Hmm, still inflammatory.

Mark, I appreciate all types of humor, but I think for the sake of a portfolio, you may want to look for the generic "PC" humor. It's tough, though, because it tends to be bland. I like things with personality--helps it stand out.

Nowadays, though, everyone reacts strongly to the smallest things.

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First off, the queers in that disgusting movie aren't cowboys.

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Tell us how you really feel, Mike. You'd think with a couple queers in your own family you'd be a little more , I dunno, less homophobic?

And, I got grief for MY thread?

This one is much better.......(sarcasm)

Why in the heck do you think I'm homophobe?? It’s just gotta be a sickness that runs in the blood right? Did you see the movie btw??

But seriously, queer isn't a good word and I apologize if anyone found that offensive. I grew up with that term. It’s hard to keep track of all the politically correct slangs.

One thing's for certain Mark, the guys I hang around with wouldn't be caught dead with a beer that had homosexual connotations. I don't think were much different that a large % of the population either. Hell, there isn’t a one of them that will drink Zima either. Zima’s a “fag drink” to most of them.

Point taken and illustrated nicely.

Thanks for the input, Mike. I'm not trying to sell beer, I'm trying to sell my photography. The image is not an ad per se, I've just added the text to illustrate a final layout. The text was supposed to be tongue in…errr…cheek… that's all. I can clearly see that the subject is a bit touchy for some, and that I'm better off choosing different text in the final version.

Speaking of which, I've decided that when I reshoot it, I will add a saddle to the background along with the aforementioned spurs in the foreground.

It would have been easier had I thought of the cowboy theme from the beginning…. Or simply shot it on black Plexiglas! Or, maybe I should have gone for a Zima with leather and bondage props?

Mike -
You apologise for using "queer" saying you find it diffacult to keep track of all the correct slangs. But then you go further and refer to Zima as a "fag drink".
I would like make a friendly suggestion to you, if you ever do decide to build that sports bar in in northern California, you may find a surprising percentage of your future customer base will be gay, homosexual, or what ever other label you feel like placing upon them. Just something to think about.

Yeah, I saw the movie and I actually enjoyed it. If you think that makes me less of a man, then I'm thankful I didn't learn the rules of manhood from the same places you did.

I’m not “labeling” anyone Dennis. But your point is well taken. The terms queer and fag have been around for decades and I didn’t come up with them. Even in the movie, the actors both said they weren’t queer – after they did the deed. The label “fag drink” isn’t one that I came up with either. It’s actually quite common as is the “Fag bag”. Same goes for just about every other race, religion, political stance or sex. I had a Negro (hope that’s the right word nowadays) get pissed because I referred to him as “black” during a casual conversation. He told me he’s not black, but kiwi. He wanted to be referred to as an African American. Great…..what if he moves to Canada?? Is he then an African Canadian?

Peter, knock it off. Don’t put words in my mouth or make your silly, half witted assumptions based off your never ending anger at the world. I couldn’t care less if someone’s gay (is that the right word???), if someone’s purple with pink poka-dots or if you enjoyed the damn movie. What a person does in life and how they go about doing it makes them the person they are. Just because I’m a homophobe, doesn’t mean I think any less of them as human beings. Sleeping with another man is a thought that disgusts me….that’s all.

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Just because I’m a homophobe, doesn’t mean I think any less of them as human beings. Sleeping with another man is a thought that disgusts me….that’s all.

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Being a "homophobe" connotes disgust with the person, not the act. You're digging yourself in deeper trying to rationalize / re-explain an attitude that's very clear to others already....

The slang doesn't help despite the fact that we understand you were not the originator of the terms....

Merriam - Webster Online Defines: Homophobia as irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

So stating that you are a homophobe but yet you don't think any less of them as human being is rather confusing to me. But now that I clearly understand your feelings on this topic, I really do recommend not attempting a business venture in California.

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Don’t put words in my mouth or make your silly, half witted assumptions based off your never ending anger at the world.

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First off, calm down a bit. Secondly: Who is this Peter with never ending anger at the world? Cause I sure as hell don't know him.

I think I met him once, but he was really, really drunk at the time. Or maybe that was me.

Yes, but that's only temporary anger. I'm trying to figure out when never-ending came into it.

I mean, cause everyone here knows, Peter is an excessively serious and ill-tempered person.

I'm sure Spiff would have a few things to add if he was reading this thread....

Out of curiosity, how many of you have seen the movie? I enjoyed the movie but I have to admit I was a bit shocked at the tent scene, I don't think it did anything to enhance the film, and I don't think you could call it a gratuitous sex scene, so what was the point?

I think the point of the scene was to evoke a response from the audience. I can't say I didn't feel awkward during the scene, but I certainly didn't "chicken out" and let a little man on man action ruin my enjoyment of a fine film.

Also, would we be talking about this movie if that scene didn't exist?

Haven’t ever looked up the definition of homophobia before. I just figure I was one, seeing how I’m very uncomfortable around homosexuals. Now that you’ve all taken the time to gang up on me and point out what that definition is, I do not believe I am one - as defined. But, please feel free to call me whatever you wish that makes you all feel better. I support the team culture, even if it is at my expense. Go TEAM!!

Mark S Johnson. I expect tactics like that from Peter and his loyal buddy Adam, but I thought you were bigger than that. Trying to twist my words to mean something that I clearly did not mean is wrong. I meant what I wrote. If someone’s sexual preference is the same sex, then so be it. I do not approve of it, but I do not hold the person in disgust. It is the act that I find disgusting, which is exactly what I wrote. I do not understand it, I don’t like it, and I don’t want my children exposed to it. That does not mean that the gay community in a whole is one that I am disgusted by. And by the way, go back and notice the parenthesis I put around fag drink. They actually mean something. Like….maybe I was quoting someone. You wanted opinions; you got one form the straight guy. And believe it or not, my opinion on this subject is not the minority.

For Peter’s anger, just do a search on his posts. Enough said. But you are all pretty tight, so I doubt you’d ever see him as anything but a wonderfully nice chap that never has anything derogatory to say to anyone.

Thanks for the advice Dennis. I’ll stay clear of California.

Let the flogging continue…………

Here in Portland, you'd be labelled much worse than a Homophobe. I haven't heard the terms, "fag, queer and negro" mentioned in the same breath since I was stationed in Mississippi.

Stone__Man, is that you?

Or has Stoney recruited Mike into his legion?

Mike, I'm not here to flog you, or plaster you, or anything like that. There is nothing wrong with you hating homosexual acts. That's just how your brain is programmed - to be a heterosexual. It's not as if you have to stop and think which gender you are interested in when you go out on dates, right? The answer is obvious to you and has been since puberty.

I really believe that for gays/lesbians, the same is true. It's not a choice for them either; they are just being who they are. Being true to themselves, just as God made them.

As an aside: sometimes I suspect that God is wondering not whether we all can be heterosexual, as many who quote the Bible would have you believe, but rather how those of us who are will act towards those who are not. To me, tolerance, kindness, and humility have always been some of the biggest virtues. And the ones that Jesus seemed to especially like. Jesus, the original liberal!

Regarding Peter, the only time I have seen him stern (not even angry, really) was this weekend when he confronted Stone__Man on his behavior. Peter's posts are funny and, yes, he does indeed sound like a wonderfully nice chap. And in my line of work, I have to be a good judge of character.

Not that I need to thrown in my opinion here, but I don't really think mdrew meant to step on any toes. It's just that his use of the word "queer" was politically incorrect which he has apologized for. He obviously knew the movie was about two gay men before he started watching it, and if he was so homophobic, he wouldn't have even considered it in the first place. He's not alone being uncomfortable with the first tent scene. Personally, I loved the scene, but I'm a gal . But even so, it was totally unexpected and even pointless. It happened so suddenly with barely a hint of seduction or even sexual tension. It was simply a total act of lust and made the story confusing in my opinion. I didn't see any passion between these men (at the beginning of the movie) to convince me they were actually head over heels in "love" when they left eachother on Brokeback Mountain.

Anyway, I didn't come on here to review the movie, but just to say that I think I understood mdrew's point.

Sorry if I butted in!

I've known Peter for 27 years, so I don't need to search his posts to realize that "never ending anger at the world" is not a term that describes him with any degree of accuracy. And I never recall twisting any of your words to mean something else, but perhaps I missed it.

Regardless, I think things got a little blown out of proportion here. Maybe it's just another case where words typed out on the internet are taken the wrong way cause you can't hear how they were said or see the person saying them, but when you start out with "the queers in that disgusting movie" surely you've got to understand that it's going to be taken as more than a little hostile by some?

27 years? Geez, man, you're getting old!

I'm not sure I would speak on God's behalf, or Jesus for that matter, its obvious you don't know God's word based on your responses. Sorry Mark, didn't intend to hijak your thread...continue..

I agree. No need to go any further into religion (or politics) on boards like these. It usually just degenerates the board. I will, however, send you a PM in reply, to outline the gospel of medic8r.

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God's word

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Well, it's not exactly God's word but a man own interpretation of God. Is it?

Thomas….is it “here in Portland” or yourself that would label me? If it’s the later, let’s hear it. And what would that label be? I suspect you think I have a pointy white hat too? Since when is “negro” not PC?? As pissed or offended that my “horrible words” may have been to you, I can assure you that your veiled bigotry reference to me and Mississippi has made me even angrier. Down right F-ing pissed.

Thank you Marry. You summed it up perfectly and what you wrote took some serious gumption.

Doc, I appreciate your reply, but you thesis statement pretty much blew it out of the water for me. Remember, not everyone lives in a region where Homosexuality is a common thing. Even though two of my sisters are lesbian, one would never know unless they knew them very well. I’ve apologized for what I said on my own accord realizing too late that it was wrong….. Even though to me, where I live, the terms are used quite commonly. Your judgment in character is not one that I trust now.

I dreaded opening up this thread this morning and did so only because I’ve offended some and do feel bad about that. I’ve tried to make amends and ended up making things worse. I will not be trying to do that anymore, but will however make sure that what I did write does not get twisted. When the dust settles, I'll be saying my goodbye's to a very select few board members.

Precisely. The main beef I have with religion is how everybody's so sure that they and only they have the right answer. I can offer my opinion/interpretation, but I realize that it's just that, and it's no big deal to me if mdrew or sirquack agree or not. Believe what you will, it's fine to me as long as no one gets killed or otherwise suffers because of it. I know that "suffers" covers a lot of ground, but anyway ...

It just seems that with conviction and intense belief, compassion should not be lost. Of course, if there are things that your convictions tell you not to tolerate, I understand that. I may just not agree with you on that issue.

I'll go back to my corner now.

sirquack, I guess this will substitute for that PM I was going to send you.

Anyway, I think that this discussion and others like it can be good to stimulate thought. Shame that it always seems to end up with name-calling and people picking up their ball and going home.

Although I am Catholic I have embraced some parts of other religions. I am currently in my 23rd year of rumspringa.

Mike, Imho you've more than made amends for your choice of words, it certainly is not the first time something has been said to offend some on the board, and it certainly won't be the last.
I can respect someone who gives their honest opinion of what they think whether I agree with it or not, your posts have always been intelligent and helpfull and I hope you continue to stay active here.

Your assumptions in your first sentence is not true of everyone, and you don't know me from a hill of beans. I do not consider myself a Door to Door Bible thumper as you think all of us are, nor to I think that I have ALL the answers. I have a great family, a teacher for a wife, and two great sons. We try to attend church every weekend, but sometimes I have a tee time and don't make it. I like to fish, drink beer, and crank up my Axiom speakers, just like the rest of you.

However, like MDrew I have my own beliefs, and not sure why everyone is pouncing on him. Drew, I hope you stick around. Mark, sorry again.

You're right. I shouldn't have said "everybody's." I should have said "All too often, people are". Big difference. How I wish that I had that tomtuttle verbal precision!

And from your response, it sounds like that is not the case here. Fair enough. Good to know. But it does happen all too often, as evidenced by world events past and present, when one ideology tries to impose its views on another. So hopefully you can see my point of view and understand why my view of spirituality and the individual's pursuit of it is much better than my opinion of organized religion. Which is still better than my opinion a lot of other things, to be fair. Organized religion has done some great things over history. It's just that it's easy to see its flaws as well.

So at the risk of beating the horse to death, I'm not judging here. I may be self-confident, but I'm not the higher power! Really, there is no need for you to get so defensive. I'm afraid that you are inferring a lot into my statements. Adam was right that part of the problem in these kinds of discussions is that the parties involved cannot see the inflections and delivery of these posts. All too often the intent is misjudged.

Like I said in my PM, I have enjoyed becoming part of this community and enjoy discussions of all sorts. I echo your last paragraph.

Does anyone think I should have used a smaller aperture to gain more depth of field????????????????????????

I don't think you'd want that beer glass any more out of focus.

I like the glow of the beer in the glass... Makes me want to drink one right now...

Everything else aside, I think it is a great photo.

the glass of beer does make me crave one. so if i were you take out everything else just leave the glass of beer. maybe a small killians logo in the corner would be helpful ( it is after all a beer ad).

I do. BTW, what aperture did you use?

P.S I'm not crazy about the shadow that runs down the center of the bottle from top to bottom. It makes it look like a thick seam in the glass. Also, on my computer, the beer seems to be red in color. Is it my computer or the real color of the beer? Also, you might want to loose the white letter/number stamp on the bottle.
I like the simplicity of the photo, not sure about adding props but the bottle cap makes a nice prop, maybe it could be a little more prominent.

Seriously, thanks for the praise, but I wasn't looking for accolades, only to defuse the situation a bit.

I think it's crystal clear that the "Brokeback" reference doesn't belong in a portfolio image and when I get around to re-shooting it, I'll come up with something different.

I regret starting this thread as it's turned into one of those ugly political threads that gets many hot under the collar. Certainly the strong feelings raised here accomplished my initial goal of determining if the "Brokeback" reference was too volatile a reference!

It's all your fault, you big jerk! Your thread generated perhaps the most accurate insult anyone has ever directed at me. Sometimes the truth hurts. I spent the entire weekend whistling "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" to try to purge myself of my never-ending anger at the world. I'm not sure it worked. I'll probably ask medic8r to write me a prescription for Zoloft.

Reading message boards is fun.

Are we all still here?

Assume Positive Intent.

I like all of you.

<<<<<I do. BTW, what aperture did you use? >>>>>

F/5.6

<<<<I'm not crazy about the shadow that runs down the center of the bottle from top to bottom. >>>>>

Yeah, that needs to be addressed.

<<<<on my computer, the beer seems to be red in color. Is it my computer or the real color of the beer?>>>>

It's the real color. Hence the name: Killian's Red.

<<<you might want to loose the white letter/number stamp on the bottle.>>>>

Yeah, I never finished the PS work once I was unsure of the text and started leaning towards the cowboy theme.

Thanks for the input!

Mark,

"Your initial goal?".....you mean this was all an experiment on innocent board members?
You sick little monkey, I can picture you now, sitting in your high-back leather chair, in front of your vast electronics console, stroking your white pussy
cat,......planning your next diabolical post.

Larry

Shouldn't I have an eye patch?

Seriously (in case I didn't explain clearly enough): I was trying to determine if the text would simply illicit a chuckle, or was it too "charged" a reference that would ultimately hurt the image and portray it in a bad light (HA! A Pun!) with some viewers.

It was demonstrated all too clearly that the latter is true.

I could still use a Killian right now!! Well... I know it might be kinda early but what the heck...

So if you're Dr. Evil, then who is Mini-Me? Austin Powers? Felicity Shagwell? We could start a whole other casting thread...

Personally, I think Killian's tastes yucky, no matter how good Mark makes it look.

I thought that casting thread was very intriguing, and was a little surprised it didn't capture everyone's imagination in a more tangible way.

It does have a beautiful color, though!

Appearance is worth only 3 points out of 50.

wow...I go away for a few weeks and look what you guys do...

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...There is nothing wrong with you hating homosexual acts. That's just how your brain is programmed - to be a heterosexual...

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So though I don't hate hetrosexual acts, it would be OK if I did? Just because I'm not interested in having sex with women doesn't mean it's vile and disgusting and make me want to leave the room screaming if (errr...WHEN I see it on TV)

I've got a bunch more of this thread to read yet...I'm sure I'll be back with more.

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Not that I need to thrown in my opinion here, but I don't really think mdrew meant to step on any toes. It's just that his use of the word "queer" was politically incorrect which he has apologized for. He obviously knew the movie was about two gay men before he started watching it, and if he was so homophobic, he wouldn't have even considered it in the first place. He's not alone being uncomfortable with the first tent scene. Personally, I loved the scene, but I'm a gal . But even so, it was totally unexpected and even pointless. It happened so suddenly with barely a hint of seduction or even sexual tension. It was simply a total act of lust and made the story confusing in my opinion. I didn't see any passion between these men (at the beginning of the movie) to convince me they were actually head over heels in "love" when they left eachother on Brokeback Mountain.

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His use of the word "disgusting" was far more offensive to me then "queer".

I also agree that the scene was ill timed, and abrubt. Though, they were following the short story quite closely. Heck...most of the movie was lame.

Oh...btw. Great photo. I agree with Peter's comment about the dark shadow down the middle. And the Brokeback comment would make me chuckle lightly, but make me wonder why on earth it would be referenced in a Killians Red advert.

<<<<why on earth it would be referenced in a Killians Red advert.>>>>

Hey Craig:
It may not have been clear, but because it's my intentions to re-shoot it, and when I do so, it'll have a "cowboy theme".... Not as simple for a New Englander to pull off as if I had put the beer on a dock with a Trawler and Lobsters in the background!

I found the scene outrageous. I mean, engaging in sex acts during work hours with your co-worker?! oh, the humanity!
~Jaime

Initially I found the picture to be slightly humorous, but probably in bad taste. I also didn't understand what Killian's had to do with Brokeback Mountain. But, then it quickly degenerated into something mean, hateful, and just plain wrong. As the forum's only aging Pinko, apparently, I can say that this thread has made me sick to my stomach. I didn't believe what I was reading. But, it won't matter what I say or think, because I'm just that old liberal, he said sarcastically. It almost makes me want to sell my Axioms and buy Celestian's or JBLs or Bose even. I think that Amie should close this thread. Hate words don't belong on an Axiom message board. The way this thread has progressed and the acceptance of unacceptable viewpoints has repulsed me. But, none of this matters. Ater all, it's ok to dislike gays, blacks, and illegal immigrants. It's just the aging, pinkos who seem to be upset. No one else seems to mind.

I minded too, but I won't switch speakers or leave the forum because of the thoughts of a few.

I'm certainly fine with the thread being removed.

This will be my last response to this thread and last time viewing it. I’ve decided that I won’t be visiting the Axiom boards much anymore. Part of that decision had to do with what was said here, but the bulk of the decision is time management. My son’s growing up too quickly and I’ve got too many irons in the fire to be “wasting” time screwing around on internet discussion groups. Just yesterday I missed one of my boy’s ball games because I wasted two hours of my day that I had to make up later. But, things that were said here were the proverbial straw. – and I’m not about to say it wasn’t my own damn fault or doing either. Another factor is that these boards have changed over the past few months. The atmosphere is not nearly as friendly and curious and it once was. It’s just not much fun conversing here anymore. This WC board may be part of that problem too. Too many controversial topics get brought up hear. Maybe the sight should consider setting up some ground rules for the WC? Like, no political or religious topics? Just a thought……..There’s too many hyena’s here too. When someone gets a slap for saying something they shouldn’t have, the hyena’s come running to partake in the festivities with gleeful enthusiasm. Hyenas by themselves are harmless cowards, but together in a pack, they are merciless. When someone’s down, what good does it do to keep kicking him/her?

So that being said, take what I have to write as you will.

Spif,

Again, I am sorry for my inappropriate choice of words. You’ve never been anything but kind and courteous and I am embarrassed by my inconsiderate behavior and pathetically poor choice of words. I can try and make excuses all day, but in the end, it simply wasn’t right to say (type) them in a public atmosphere. I knew “queer” was wrong shortly after I wrote it, and when I logged back on to edit my post, it was too late. –the damage was already done. With my ignorance on the PC side of this topic, I doubt my second choice would have been much better either, but maybe I’d have gotten lucky. I’m also sorry that you find my “disgusting” comment offensive. I’m not going to change that stance though. Man on Man sex does disgust me and there’s nothing I can do to change that. I still can’t eat pees or brussel sprouts no matte how hard I try. Probably shouldn’t have said it, but I did and can’t take it back. What’s done is done. For the forth time now, sorry. It’s up to you to decide if I’m sincere or not.

Peter,

You asked, so I’ll tell you. Where did the angry comment come from? You are consistently amicable and gregarious with the click you belong to on these boards. You guys (and you all know who you are) are constantly throwing cute posts around at each other. It is no surprise that none of them see you as angry or anything but their ‘bud’. You are also pleasant and somewhat helpful for the most part to others on these boards not in your little group. But (there’s always a but), to others, you can be a real jerk. Some of the things you say are downright rude and hateful. Just take a look at some of the comments you have thrown at Jinx. He’s an irritating fella to say the least, but he most certainly did not deserve the bulk of the comments thrown at him by you. And you are not the only one doing this either. That’s another topic of its own that I’d like to address but won’t (more on the hyena’s).

You said things personally directed to me several months ago in that “surrender thread” that I still have not gotten over. Not only did you direct them to me without provocation, you also sided with Bren with what he had to say to me. What Bren said to me is unforgivable and I’ll hold him in contempt for what he said to me till the day I die. You never, never accuse a veteran with an honorable discharge of treason. Never. And you never question his/her patriotism. Both are things that you and Bren said to me. I remember it quite vividly.

I’m not saying I’m a great guy be any means, because I am not. I do know and recognize my faults though. I am always aware of how much of an ass I can be with what I say/write – and do try to not be an ass. Sometimes I screw up and say/write something stupid that I end up regretting and have to make apologies. You do not. You just continue on as if the one you offended threw the first punch.

Believe me or not, I do not care. I have nothing to gain or loose by saying these things, so you can either listen and try to learn from them, or not.



I’ll be editing my first tasteless post. I’ve left it alone this long only so that some of the board hyena’s can not twist my words any further that they already have.

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What Bren said to me is unforgivable and I’ll hold him in contempt for what he said to me till the day I die. You never, never accuse a veteran with an honorable discharge of treason. Never. And you never question his/her patriotism.

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con - tempt :
1 The feeling or attitude of regarding someone or something as inferior, base, or worthless; scorn.
2 The state of being despised or dishonored; disgrace.
3 Open disrespect or willful disobedience of the authority of a court of law or legislative body.

As for being a veteran, I'm not about to coo and purr about your previous employment or build up some sort of false reverence about you because your paycheque used to come from the government. A lot of people do what they think are important things, for some it's with a carbine, with others it's a clipboard.

Bren R.

You know, I usually avoid political or religious threads, but I have to post here.

Bren-People who put their lives on the line are most certainly different from people who use clipboards. They deserve our respect, even if we don't agree with their politics or even moral views.

Mike-I'm sorry to see you go. While I've disagreed with you in the past, I generally find your posts interesting, and I really like your house. I appreciate your explanation in the above post about the misuse of words; it makes me a little less pissed off about your first and subsequent posts in this thread. And I wholeheartedly agree with you about political and religious threads on these boards.

I must take issue with the implied idea (could be wrong here) that people shouldn't have friends on online forums, or that friends should not support each other or cover each other's backs. If there are people who make inside jokes here, so be it. We're friends, they're friends, whatever. As I see it, this shouldn't be an anesceptic place where we all pretend that we don't care one whit about one another. And yeah, the jokes can get nasty sometimes. That's the risks people take by being social animals. Yeah, people get pissed off sometimes. See above.

What I find often gets lost (and I've posted about this before) is nuances in voice, facial expressions, hand waving. You don't get that online, so you're free to make up your own interpretations about it. I can (and do!) say nasty things to my close friends in person--but I may be smiling, or using an ironic tone of voice when I do it--they know I'm not serious! Online, in text, that doesn't come across. Sure, we can use smilies, but they're not exactly a great substitute...

At this point, I'm just rambling, so I'm going to stop now. In any case, I'm going to keep reading these boards, and keep posting in the way I do now. I'll just avoid the political threads--and I suggest anyone else with a similarly weak constitution to my own do the same.

In reply to:

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Bren-People who put their lives on the line are most certainly different from people who use clipboards. They deserve our respect, even if we don't agree with their politics or even moral views.

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I'll just say that I have a more respectful baseline for, say, a certain forum member that is raising his grandchildren than for someone based on their car, job, or ability to beatbox.

You are who you are, you do what you do.

Bren R.

Part one of a two-part post:

I was saddened to see mdrew’s post in which he signed off of the groups, so I sent him a PM. He replied and we have come to some common ground. I wanted to mention this because I was impressed with the things he said in his congenial PM. I also imagine that other posters may be curious as to how things stand with the principals of these posts. I have also exchanged PMs with others in the last few days as I have sought feedback on these two threads (this and the “Ears” one, where part two of this post is found). I shared with mdrew some of the nice things that others have said about him in their PMs to me.

Recent posts have made it clear that politics and religion are indeed topics to beware of in forums like these. I realize that I was the one that brought God into the Brokeback thread, and while some have appreciated my views, some have not. It’s, of course, bound to be that way when discussing religion/spirituality. Believe it or not, I’ve never imagined myself a preacher or pontificator, but lately these kinds of things have been sloshing around in my head and I let them out for a bit. As a relative newbie to internet chat and forums, though, I have learned my lesson as I have watched tempers flare. Luckily, though, it appears that we have handled this bump in the road, and life on the (new and improved!) forums goes on. Thanks also to those who had kind words for me in PMs and posts regarding this issue. My intention is indeed positive.

This post continues in the “Ears” thread…

I agree Rick, hope he changes his tune and stay around these parts.