Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Studio Monitors

Ahoj,

I was speaking with someone yesterday about their intensions of setting up a small recording studio in his home. It’s nothing super extravagant but I think it will come together nicely.

He is looking to pick up a set of speakers to use as studio monitors without breaking the bank. I naturally suggested the M2’s as they appear to have a nice flat freq. response, won’t take up too much space and should be accurate enough to expose any recording issues that he will need to hear.

What are your thoughts on the matter? The M3 is doable price-wise but the lower end bass-hump is what makes me think that the M2 would be better.

Any other speaker manufacturers come to mind in this price range (~300 CDN)?

I look forward to your responses,

J

For recording he might want to go with a monitor that is made for recording, like the behringer truth series, and I personally like self powered studio monitors. But I haven't been able to compare them to Axioms yet, my M22s ase suposed to arive on monday.

But with the 30 day in home trial you can't go wrong with trying the Axioms, and you might be able to convince the guys at Mothers music to let you do an in home comparison of Axioms vs Behringer.

Hope this helps

Ryan

Hey GuitarGuy:
I'd love to hear the results of your comparison. I've been debating a pair of M3s VS. Mackie 824s for awhile now.

There's the argument that tells me I can't go wrong with the Mackies.... and another that tells me the Axiom M2s would be a bit more accurate than the M3s. But the truth is, I've heard so many great things for so long about the M3s that I'm just dying to get a pair to have around the house!

In my limited experience, and since my Axioms haven't arived yet I would say that the Mackies are most likely better for sound up close to the speakers. I also know that some of the studio monitors with the active controlls like the Mackies have a time delay built in so that the sound from the woofer and tweeter reach your ears at the same time. I think htat this woiuld be most useful for when you are very close to the speakers, but the M3 doesn't ahve a crossover on the woofer which makes me think that the xover for the tweeter would impose a phase delay which could in theory create the same effect since the time delay for 5 inches is such a short delay.

But I am most likely over thinking this (the curse of being an electronics engineer). But the Mackie monitors might sound better because there is an amp designed specifically for each of the drivers, but then again I have heard rumors that Axiom is going to start making an amp for their speakers.

I will be comparing my M22s with some monitors that a few friends of mine have to see what difference if any there is.

Agreed, the oilers should keep going. 12 more minutes without a goal and they will move forward. I hope I hope ...

Back to my post, I should also mention that the studio monitors will have to pull double duty as they will be used for some DVD, music and Video game playback.

J

How can you be posting messages with such an exciting game going on?? Bring on the Finals, the Oil are ready

I still think that the best way to see which will work better is to do an A B comparison with some raw recordings, CDs, and DVDs. And get the one that works best for the primary application the speakers will be used for. I have seen from other posts that there are quite a few people in Winnipeg on these forums that have Axioms. So it might be easy to see how they sound, and then compare them to studio monitors.

No more waiting indeed! The Oilers are moving on to the finals! Rad.

I think that an A-B test might do the trick. I'm sure he will be up for it.

Cheers,

Jordan

I would have to go with M3s after A/B-ing them. I found the M3s to be very accurate, and the bass hump is relatively mild compared to most small speakers. As long as they are mounted away from the walls a bit you barely notice the hump.

If you need to place the speakers right in the corners then you probably will notice the bump with M3s, and maybe M22s would be a better choice.

M2s just don't go deep enough to let you do a decent job mixing the low frequencies IMO.

Quote:

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M2s just don't go deep enough to let you do a decent job mixing the low frequencies IMO.

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And if combined with a sub? Would you then choose the M2s?

I doubt that he will be getting a sub. The M3's don't really cost much more than the M2's so price is not a problem there. M22's outside the budget at the moment.

We were just worried about the bass hump being an issue. Now it seems like a bit of a trade-off. M3's with more low end but a slight hump or the M2's with a ruler flat Freq response but less low end.

Tough call,

J

My thought was that down the road, for any other use but as monitors, I'd probably like the M3s more so they are a little more versatile in their uses....

From my limited experience recording it is always good to err on the side of not enough bass. So the M3s slight bass hump might work to your advantage. I find the best way to see if a recording has too much bass is find someone with a big car stereo, and compare it to some recordings of a similar styleEither the M3s or the Behringer truth monitors would be my first choices.

Not sure if these would "break the bank", but they are very excellent speakers:

Harbeth Speakers

I have a pair of M3s that I use as dual centers. Great speakers.

The Harbeth Monitor 30's, for example, are over $3000. They would most certainly "break the bank". Although, they do look to be nice speakers. We will keep them in mind if we win the lottery or something.

Thanks for the suggestion anyhow.

Cheers,

j

I don't have a lot of expereience but a passive M2 (requires an amplifier) and an active Mackie 824 (self powered) are such different animals as studio monitors as to be difficult to even compare.

THE most important thing in recording is accuracy in all the frequencies. No bass humps allowed and the monitor better reach some pretty low freq's or you will make up for it while mixing and end up with a bass heavy mix.

I have a pair of active Event 5" Project Studios and in my limited recording experience I would always end up with mixes that sounded great on the Events but would just be bass mud on any other system that could reproduce bass better than the 5 inchers.

What I was doing is dialing in a LOT of bass on the Events because they couldn't reproduce those frequencies. Hence the mix would sound good but too much bass for any other system that could reproduce bass.

So I got an active subby and the mixes improved, or at least they weren't as bass heavy as before.

Mackie 824's are considered state of the art by some and panned by others but they are VERY popular because you can get all the frequencies reproduced with its wide frequency response.

The M2's which requires an amp would be one the least suited speakers I could think of because of its limited bass response (unless a sub was employed) and the bass hump (or any other hump) in the M3 automatically disqualfies it as a studio monitor, but that's only accrding to conventional wisdom.

PLUS studio monitors are designed for near-field sound reproduction, not to fill a room.

So probably best to get studio monitors for what they are designed for and loudspeakers for their designed intent as well.

Hope that helps

While your waiting for the lottery, try listening to Wilson Duette.

That is what I like about the behringers. They are very afordable, have 8" drivers, are sold as a matched pair, and can be bought active, or passive. The prices are on their web site.

http://www.behringer.com/02_products/loudspeaker_index.cfm?lang=ENG

Every place in Canada uses the MSRP from the net, no good deals, but if you are in the US go to a guitar center, and the Behringer gear is dirt cheap.

I would still say an AB comparison is the way to go.

I don't think the bass hump in the M3s is as pronounced as, say, the Rogers LS3/5A "BBC monitors". I don't have a graph in front of me but from what I remember they peaked the bass up a bit as well...

Is that why the bass is kind of weak on older British recordings, or am I drawing inaccurate correlations?

Hard to say. The LS3/5A's were intended for mobile and small studio recording where you wouldn't be expecting deep bass anyways...

I don't think they were intended as the primary speakers for mixing down a symphony orchestra performance although they would serve as "typical good" speakers.

Howdy,

More info:
I thought about the lack of bass but figured that it might not too much of an issue because of the type of music being recorded. He is mostly mixing folk consisting of an acoustic guitar and a female singer. If he was doing drum and bass then that would be another story.

I suppose the other thing to keep in mind is that this is more of a hobby for him. It isn't of paramount importance for him to have the very best gear. He just wants something half-way decent. The Behringer's seem like they could do the trick. It sounds like there is more support for those than for the M2/M3's.

Jordan, The lack of bass in a speaker used for monitoring in a recording situation will only mean the bass is exagerated when played on other systems. Will wreak havoc on a bass heavy recording but maybe not so much on the style your friend is considering.

If your friend does decide to get monitors the KRK Rockits area a great choice, one I would choose over the Behringers. They are powered or passive as well and the 6 inchers repoduce great bass for their size and are pretty reasonable.

Rockit RP6

Passive ST6

RP-6 Review

You also mentioned something halfway decent. Both the Truths and the Rockit RP-6's are way more than half way decent and you can't go wrong with either one. My 5 inch Events rock the whole house and they are yesterday's technology.

Recording acoustic guitars is not too easy. Check out the Shure web site for mic placement.

http://www.shure.com/booklets/default.asp

They have a lot of info about getting a good sound. Acoustic guitars can get pretty boomy in recordings so I would check this site out for recomendations, and always be sure to play with mic positions to get the sound you want instead of adding EQ to make an OK recording sound great.

The powered Mackies seem to be quite the favorite. I brought a pair of M3ti's to my friend's studio just for fun about 3 months ago. While everyone loved them for general listening, they were uncomfortable with the curve for mixing purposes. After doing some test mixes (the m3's powered by a 500wpc QSC amp. Needless to say the volume fader wasn't pushed up too far) the results showed overcompensation for the bass: either they rolled too much off leaving an anemic mix or left it as is creating a slightly bass-heavy sound. I'm sure they could adjust as needed but there's a reason people stick with Mackie, Tannoy, and a few others. Sure they aren't the perfect audiophile speakers but they have ruler-flat near-field response.

Thanks for the link GuitarGuy. There's some interesting stuff in there.

This post is certainly proof that the Axiom forum members don't simply tow the company line. Some good honest unbiassed opinions.

This might be a silly question but since studio monitors seem to excel over regular bookshelf speakers, why don't more people just opt to get monitors over bookshelves for their home theatre/music use?

Hello All, First post...

Well Now I am a little worried as I just ordered a pair of m3 v2's (anyone no why on my email confirm it listed them as m3 vi?).

The reason I bought them is exclusively to mix studio work. I was about to drop a considerable amount more on a set of studio monitors to replace my Mackie HR 24's with as I can NEVER EVER get a mix to translate to another system. I was on a highly respected web site and a person was saying that a well known engineer recommended for them to buy a pair of Paradigm Mini monitors, I went to their site and decided the M20? would be more satisfying for the purpose. But the local dealer would never answer their phone. I was looking around and had already settled on buying an Axiom system to use as a pseudo mastering system based on (target audience mixing), then I saw a comparison between the Axiom and Paradigm and thought I would try the M3's.

The reason given and being is the engineer claimed that the mixes translate well to other systems when using this size speaker.

Presently I use the 824's and a set of JBL's with a sub and still strike out on translation. So I thought before I spend a score of money on something that may or may not work for me I would spend 320.00 and get something that may suit my needs just fine.

If interested I will post my thoughts after a get acquainted period.

I would post my studio site but do not want to get acused of spamming or trolling my first post out

T.

Well my M3's arrived last week and I spent an afternoon interfacing them and an Onkyo M-282 amp into my rig using only the main output of my Yamaha Digital Mixer. I also spent the time to integrate a stereo sub for good measure. I made up my mind that I would not listen to any of my mixes or projects in the works until I spent some time listening to these new speakers.

I see this could be a long response so I will try to be brief. After listening to a few personal favorites from days gone past. I had to stop. Unfortunately, my listening experience was going to have to be deferred as I had to pull my mixing desk out and remove the Sub, the Mackie HR 824'3 and the JBL's from the system. As I could tell they were no longer needed. Hmmmmm 6" inch speakers eh?

With all of the un-needed stuff removed, I settled in to put these little guys through a workout. The more I listened the more the beauty of the speakers started to shine. I found myself listening to some of the classic rock mixes and asking myself, I wonder if so an so wishes he would have put less compression on the vocals there etc.? After a few hours I couldn't stand it and was ready to "face the music."

I loaded up a project that is to go out for production later this month. It is a very important project for us and I have been having trouble getting the mix to translate. I was immediately confronted with details that had been eluding me, the bad bass tones that were not showing up on the Mackies and JBL's jumped right up and slapped me on the cheek. The over hyped highs and muddy mids on the guitars came right out of my computer screen and started waiving at me as if to say, hey dipstick where have you been? Then the bass spoke up and said something like hey how about letting up on the compression. In about 5 minutes I had this mix under control, the instruments and frequencies all seemed harmonious. Next up an Acoustic record that is to leave us this coming Thursday, In less than ten minutes the song I was working on went from ho hum to stellar, I mean stellar, and suddenly there was something that my wife has not seen in a while, and that is a smile on my face. The next test/worry would be, how does this mix translate.

Unfortunately we have been so busy I did not have a chance to even burn a CD to listen to. To say the least I was worried as I was churning out mixes under the gun so to speak for about 5 days straight. By Monday I was a little concerned about all of this work I was letting leave without checking it. (my usual protocol involves a lot of cussing and a lot of thrown away cd's and my poor wife wishing she could help).

Sunday was the big test however, a client had booked a ten hour block and planned on recording mixing and leaving with a 3 song demo, uh, oh! I usually start apologizing at noon saying you know I don't like to track all day and be asked to mix it down at the end of a 10-12 hour day as my ears are shot. About three hours into tracking I noticed something very un-familiar to me. I was turning the speakers down, what? Hmmmm. I also noted this phenomenon when I was listening for pleasure, and one thing anyone who has listened to my live mixes will tell you is I "never" turn down.

As the session was coming to a close My apprehension was growing, as not only was this project leaving, there were a few others already gone, and I hadn't listened to any of them. I have been living on the edge so long, it seemed almost serendipitous.

I mixed this project to K-14 scale and hit it at about +0.5. I brought up Voxengo Span to see what it looked like and to my friggen amazement it came up to a nice -20 DBFS, and nearly flat across the spectrum, definitely an attractive looking mix.

I made a copy for myself after the group cleared. Exhausted I went to bed and put the cd into the Boxed Panasonic home theater in or bedroom, and wow. I call my wife, and say "you have to come hear this." The bass was right in the pocket, the drums sounded clear and authoritative with just the perfect attack and thump. Everything in it's place. I was happy and slept well, finally! The following day I had to got replenish my cdr stock, and the final test,,,,,the car stereo, well truck stereo in my case. I put the cd in and braced my self. The song came on and right then I knew all was well. The kick drum was right in my face but not making the speakers sound like they were going to jump out of their baskets. All of the mid bass guitar sounds were there and made the song strong. The cymbals and vocal were very good. Was this a perfect mix? No, but the things that needed adjusted were minor and I could attribute them to a tired set of ears from the night before. I imagine five minutes for some minor adjustments and nobody will believe this recording was done in ten hours, no way man. One last thing, when I turned up the bass and treble something just plain magical happened, the song came alive. The cymbals shimmered, the lows reached out and grabbed you. I was impressed and I am hard to impress.

To say I love these speakers is an understatement. I actually have been enjoying my job lately and would like to give a big thank you to all of the people at Axiom. You make a wonderful product!

I don't know that I would recommend these for young engineers as they may not have fully developed their tracking technique enough to keep the low tones in check. These speakers could fool you if you do not know what you are listening for. I found for my space I like the center of the woofer at ear level, I would like to try the 22's because they stand a little taller and wouldn't require another stand to be built on my desk, but I like these so much I am not willing to chance it....Perhaps I will shell it out but I plan on a set of M-60's for the living room and don't want two sets of book shelfs, of course I bet they would find a home quickly. This is a long post I know but worth it for anyone who is sitting on the fence. Anyone who hasn't been getting their mixes to work for them. Buy a pair and don't look back. The key word when mixing is trust and I trust these speakers more than others costing 5 times as much.

T. Patterson
Empty Mind Studio

Thanks for the feedback, one question, what model of Mackies were you using? I find it hard to believe that the Mackies didn't show some qualities that the M3s did.

I ended up ordering both M22s and M3s for my theatre system (m3s will be the centre channel run in parallel). I plan on testing both in a studio setting.

I am assuming that the M22s will be a better choice because they have no bass hump like the M3s experience, then again, who knows.

That's fantastic! We've had many people asking about using the bookshelves as studio monitors, but this is the first time anyone's reported back about it. Thank you for sharing, and I'm glad you're enjoying your job. Actually a little envious, really...

Really enjoyed reading your post. I'm a little surprised the M3s worked so well for you in the studio, but very happy they did. And, I'm grateful you took the time to give us an in depth evaluation. Thank you. Welcome to the Axiom family!

Great to hear that they make excellent nearfields.

Bren R.

That's as fine an endorsement of Axiom quality as I've seen on these boards. Congratulations on your purchase and the mixes turning out well. I'm quite happy with my M3s - they really are outstanding speakers for the price.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I like reading about what people do at their jobs. I'm glad the Axioms made listening to music less of a chore.