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#148563 - 09/30/06 07:57 PM speaker level connections on the ep500
mikec Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 72
what happens if I only connect the + - of my center channel to the high level inputs? (one channel only instead of two)

does the sub need info from two channels?

will only one of the voice coils be running?

explanation: I wish to set my center speaker to large and connect the ep500, but was worried that only one of the voice coils (dual voice coil) would be operational and thus be an inefficient use of the sub

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#148564 - 09/30/06 10:47 PM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: mikec]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17739
Loc: NoVA
Why would you use the high level inputs if you have something that give you a center channel? You should have a standard LFE output that you would hook to the normal inputs on the sub.
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#148565 - 09/30/06 11:07 PM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: Ken.C]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
I'm also unsure why you would want to attempt this, and run your center as large?
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#148566 - 10/01/06 12:46 AM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: mikec]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10359
Mike, as the previous replies indicate, it's unclear even with your explanation what possible benefit you could expect from what you propose. The voice coil has nothing to do with it, but connecting only the center channel output to the EP500 certainly would be "inefficient use" since only the low bass information in the center channel could be played through the sub. The more important low bass would be in the main left and right channels and there would also be some in the surround channels on occasion, which should also be played through the EP500.
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#148567 - 10/01/06 01:21 AM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: mikec]
bridgman Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5277
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Regarding whether the dual voice coils would still be used the answer is "yes". The dual coils are not used to combine left and right channel information in the way that, say, the center channel of a Hsu Ventriloquist does. The dual coils are wired in parallel to provide a lower impedence (1.3 ohms, I think) which makes it easier to drive high power from the specially designed amplifier into the speaker.

All of the other comments about losing LFE information from the other channels should be considered seriously, unless you already have other sub(s) in your system handling those channels.

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#148568 - 10/01/06 08:36 AM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: bridgman]
mikec Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 72
sorry for the incomplete explanation ...

you see, I have three subs, the one I will be using for the LFE output will be sufficient enough such that I do not want to waste the EP500 doing a redundant job (splitting the LFE)
I wanted to either use the EP500 with the surrounds or the center (yes, setting the speakers to large)

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#148569 - 10/01/06 02:03 PM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: mikec]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17739
Loc: NoVA
OK, do you have 2 EP500s? I'm confused, because in 2 different threads, you seem to be trying to figure out what to do with an EP500 in different setups. I mean, if you've got an extra one, by all means, you can send it here.

In any case, it's often adventageous to use 2 subs (both running off the LFE channel) in one setup. People who actually do this will have more information than me, but rather than trying to hook up a monster like the EP500 to a single channel, I'd hook it up to all of them (ie, the LFE with all speakers set to small) along with a second sub.
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#148570 - 10/01/06 02:39 PM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: mikec]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 851
Loc: Toronto
With 3 subs you have three alternative configurations depending on what you are trying to achieve. Most people would connect all three subs to the receiver sub out and place them at sweet spots throughout the room to flatten nodes and achieve more linear FR. When attempting this I would pay particular attention not only to placement but also to balancing gain, phase and delay with each of the subs and the main speakers so they don't counteract one another.

Some people believe connecting one dedicated LFE sub like you have done to the DVD players sub out reduces distortion and other artifacts at the crossover point. This connection does not redirect bass from the other speakers. Again care must be taken with phase and delay issues, this time with the other subs.

That leaves two identical subs, if I read you right 2 500s, which I would suggest you configure as stereo subs. That means running a full range signal to the right and left 500s as well as having the flexibility to cross the speakers to the 500s. Because there are no high level outputs on the 500s owing to their digital design the individual L/R crossovers need to be done at line level to each sub which your receiver/processor is likely not capable of doing. To do this you would need an external crossover unit such as can be found in an SMS-1 equalizer. The results can be outstanding, if done properly.

If the stereo sub alternative is too costly or you don't have the gear then I would suggest dedicating one sub to the LFE channel plus surrounds and setting up each mono 500 by the main channels and crossing as low as you can, ideally below 80hz for best results. As above take care about phase, delay and blending with the mains at the crossover point.
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#148571 - 10/01/06 07:48 PM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: jakeman]
mikec Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 72
the 3 subs I have are all different ... have been trying different models to decide for myself the bang for the buck of subwoofers. my first sub as can be seen in the other thread is the velodyne dls-5000R (15") second one is the axiom ep500 and a third one coming is the velodyne DD-18 (hence my reason for not needing dual subs on LFE duty)

during my experimentations, I have also discovered that using the first 2 subs NONcolocated have resulted in negating what low end the axiom has ... (room measurement have resulted that instead of the 18hz extension, it followed the crappier 23hz extension of the velo) this is solved by colocating.

setting the left and rights to large however will take too much work out for the velo DD-18. (hence deciding between the surrounds or center) - I cant assume performance will improve using dual LFE's (axiom and DD) until the DD actually arrives.

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#148572 - 10/01/06 08:45 PM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: mikec]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 851
Loc: Toronto
Three different subs. Challenging to configure. I can see why you were having some cancellation with the EP500 and the Velo dls-5000R. Besides the usual placement issues, the 500 has a tuning point around 22hz while the Velo I believe is higher, around 28hz I guesstimate,--that spread is enough to create some problems with dialling in the phase between those two subs. Collocating makes more sense since you get the extra 6db "free" output from reinforcement to work with. The DLS-5000R is known to have high distortion below tuning point so collocating also has the added benefit of allowing you to lower gain on the Velo.

The DD-18 is a spectacular sub that does everything well. Congrats. I may sell the Ultra and buy one. At some point you may want to try the stereo sub alternative but you need two similar models for best results. My rig setup currently has two stereo EP600s and an Ultra for LFE and redirected surrounds. The 600s are equalized with a BFD 1124P equalizer and the Ultra with a SMS. Pretty linear response all around after many sweeps though trickier to configure than 3 LFE + redirected subwoofers. The reward is there for now. I notice the difference in panning street scenes where the cars/bus go from one side of the screen to the other. It sounds more natural and I believe it has to do with how the soundtrack was recorded and the timing of the bass from side to side. I'm the only one who notices though.
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#148573 - 10/01/06 10:20 PM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: jakeman]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Quote:

I'm the only one who notices though.




Both a curse and a blessing.
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#148574 - 10/02/06 05:33 AM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: jakeman]
mikec Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 72
jakeman, re: ep600 and your fronts, since I assume they only have speaker level INPUTS (not outputs) that your front left and right speakers are playing LARGE (full range) and the axioms are connected to them via speaker level? or using the lfe input (left only connected and right only connected - because there is only one RCA input)?

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#148575 - 10/02/06 09:49 AM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: mikec]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 851
Loc: Toronto
Mike. Yes I have the 600s connected at line level L and R large signal from the processors XLR outputs, then crossing at the subs. The LFE plus redirected surrounds from the processor and unbalanced RCA large L and R are run through the SMS and crossed. Then the speaker signals output to the amp. I thought I may have had a problem with cascading crossovers for the surrounds but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Your suggestion of using separate RCA L and R into each L and R sub should work as well.

St. Pat. Well put. I alternate between thinking its either a curse or a blessing. If you ask my wife she would suggest I'm in the former category based on the time and $$s spent.
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John

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#148576 - 10/02/06 07:44 PM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: jakeman]
mikec Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 72
so jakeman, what is your opinion re: how much <80hz information is there on the center and surrounds? (subwoofer worthy?)

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#148577 - 10/02/06 10:23 PM Re: speaker level connections on the ep500 [Re: mikec]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 851
Loc: Toronto
Definetly subwoofer worthy on the surrounds. LFE + redirected surrounds into one sub works for me. Lots of info in the surrounds in action or war movies especially.

Centre is more vocalized. Usually I find running the centre large makes voices seem less chesty. Lately, I am noticing more bass in music DVDs in the centre. I was listening to session 1 of Eric clapton's Sessions with Robert J DVD a couple of nights ago and was surprised to see so much bass guitar coming from the centre so I may set the centre to small on music DVDs.
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John

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