 Need some advice about MP3 players
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I'm planning on getting an mp3 player for Christmas and I've narrowed down my choices to the following 3: I'm pretty sure I won't get the Zune, it's too boxy for my taste and it doesn't really have anything over the other two. The Ipod is kind of expensive and I don't really care for it's interface, also I know that ITunes is supposed to be really good but I usually buy CD's and rip them so it's very unlikely I'll buy songs online. Now I think the Toshiba seems to be a good compromise between features and price. Its main drawback is battery life. Now one thing that bugs me with all those mp3 player reviews is that the sound quality is seldom discussed beyond a "sounds good!" type of statement. Is there any axiomite that could give me their opinion on sound quality for any of those players? What's the point of getting a fancy piece of equipment if it sounds like crap right?  Anyway any help would be appreciated!
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 Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Have you considered the Creative Zen Vision:M ?
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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The MP3 player won't dictate your sound quality, its the level of compression.
Generally anything below 120 compression sounds pretty bad. I don't really care for MP3s, I usually buy CDs...although I too am thinking about an MP3 player.
I would go with Ipod, check out ebay, they have awsome deals on Ipods with warranties.
They have an established iTunes store and lots of experience.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Not sure if I agree 100% with ya hutt.  The equipment, including the "ear buds" or a better pair of "buds" can make a world of distance. To me the stock Creative had much better sound than the new Ipods, but that is just me. They don't distort at higher levels like the Ipods, especially in the bass category.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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You are right that the level of compression is important. My only concern is that most of the players I've used in the past have poor sound quality or low volume no matter how good headphones I used. I currently have an old creative CDRW mp3 player and the sound is lacking in dynamics and volume though the files sound great on my pc.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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I have considered Creative products and I actually own an old Creative mp3 player and I wasn't impressed by it. Now I understand that the Creative Zen Vision line is way better than anything Creative made in the past but I every review and customer reports I have seen seem to give the advantage to the Toshiba Gigabeat S when they're pit against one another.
Do you know how good the Creative Zen Vision:M sounds compared to the Toshiba or the Ipod?
The Ipod sounds ok to me, definitely better when using better headphones than the ones provided with it; I'm not sold on the GUI though, I like the click wheel but I don't like the Apple look much.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Interesting. I haven't really been looking at anything, but my impression was that Creative's UI was pretty darn similar to the iPod UI.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Quote:
Not sure if I agree 100% with ya hutt. The equipment, including the "ear buds" or a better pair of "buds" can make a world of distance. To me the stock Creative had much better sound than the new Ipods, but that is just me. They don't distort at higher levels like the Ipods, especially in the bass category.
Exactly! That's my main concern. The Ipod hasn't impressed me with its sound quality and I couldn't care less for its interface, which means there's not much left for me to consider purchasing it at the price they sell.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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I've only got a 1st gen shuffle and a 3rd gen full size iPod, but I've never had problems with distortion at higher sound levels--which I have to use when I plug them into the car stereo. Another thing to note is that the higher price also gives higher capacity--although at those sizes, I don't know that it really matters...
That said, if the Tosh is a better fit for you, go for it!
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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I have been impressed with the Sandisk series of MP3 players. Good price and sound quality, for an MP3 any way. My wife has the E series 512MB and it works great. My niece has a different Sandisk, can't remember the series but it too sounds good and was inexpensive.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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I don't have any advice for you other than to avoid the Zune like the plague. Especially the brown one.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Reasons to stay far away from the Zune:
You can only transfer tunes using the Zune app. And it stinks horribly.
It doesn't interface with Microsoft's own Windows Media Player.
You can't even play tunes downloaded with MS's PlaysforSure DRM crappage, uh, packaging. You have to replace all previously bought tunes.
MS is almost guaranteed to bow to the RIAAs wish and allow tiered pricing so they can twist your arm to pay more for new "hot" tracks. As if there is much the member companies put out nowadays that is worth buying in the first place.
It's chunky.
The much-touted "wi-fi" feature doesn't allow wireless sync to your desktop or wireless downloads. It only allows you to share music with other Zune (l)users and the shared file can only be played or viewed 3 times before it turns into a permanent promotion to buy the file.
So run, don't walk, run away screaming from the Zune as if it is the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse themselves.
"That's some catch, that Catch-22." "It's the best there is."
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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We've got a Creative MuVo (Lisa uses it while power walking) it's pretty intuitive, the software is a downside as far as I'm concerned, but you can always use your own ripping/encoding software. It's a nice little thing, size of a jump drive, fits snugly into the armband holder. It's small (512K) but we've had it for quite a while.
Bought my youngest sister-in-law a Sandisk one for Christmas. I was pretty impressed with it from playing with it in the store. Except the buds don't fit my tiny little ear'oles but that's par for the course.
Bren R.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Out of the 3 you listed, iPod hands down. Bear in mind that the Zune is a repackage of the Gigabeat w/ a different GUI.
OK, I'll preface by saying I'm an Apple fanboy. BUT, I do have experience w/ various MP3's. In historical order: Rio PMPOne, Creative PMP300, Creative Muvo 128MB, iPod 4G 20GB, iPod Nano 4GB.
My coworker picked up a Zune the other day because it has a competing Wifi solution in there, Key Stream IIRC.
Pros:
- I actually like the brown.
- Bigger screen than iPod 5.5G
Cons:
- Man, for a 2nd gen (it's a rebrand of the Toshiba Gigabeat), it really feels (physically) unfinished. Almost like it's a prototype. The matte finish is nice as it probably doesn't pick up finger prints too easily but it's not doesn't feel right.
- Doesn't support Vista, admitted by MS already. DOH!
- Only supports WMV. ANY video has to be converted to WMV and then DRM'ed. Said it took him an hour per video that he pulled from his PSP MPEG4 library. Stupid.
- Doesn't support plays4sure.
- Screen doesn't appear as bright as even a 5G iPod video.
- Screen aspect ratio cannot be changed when watching vids. Heck, even the PSP does that.
- Navigation is weird. They couldn't use the iPod hierarchical method because the patent belongs to Creative so it has an odd directory structure.
- There's no scroll wheel. You have to click the Navigation wheel to move around. Not very intuitive. Once again, I think this is a patent issue.
So bad, I didn't even bother listening to it. Though, my buddy claims that the audio might be slightly better than the iPod.
Someone mentioned the Creative and Sandisk ones those seem to get good reviews. As far as sound quality, it depends a lot on the compression you use. For my own MP3 rips, I use 320Kbps but the AAC ones I buy from iTunes are fine. It does help to upgrade the headphones, the stock ones are only OK. I've upgraded to Ultimate Ears Superfi.5EB which are awesome, IMHO.
When connecting an iPod or any MP3 player to a home or car stereo, the headphone jack would be the lowest quality. You can eliminate a conversion stage by connecting to the dock port. Sounds much better.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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I've had the 30Gig video iPod for about a month now and I love it. The last "portable music device" I owned was a cassette walkman - 17 years ago! You would not beleive the difference in audio quality!! What is everyone complaining about!?!?! No hiss. No drop outs. Nothing!
Anyhow, back from the 80's, I really like the interface, but I can't warm to iTunes. Actually, it borders on hate. Maybe it's that I'm getting older, and it's harder to figure things out. I mean, what's with this whole "sync" noncense? What happened to the little red "record" button? I miss my record button! And when I press "Eject iPod", nothing happens! Used to be when a fella pressed eject, something would pop out!
Oh, I'm tired. I need to lay down......
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Thanks for the advice. Honestly the Zune wasn't my top choise out of the 3 but I wanted to hear what ya'll thought about it. I really am debating between the iPod and the Toshiba Gigabeat (though it's related to the Zune it looks like it's actually a whole lot better). I like the fact that the Tosh is compatible with plays for sure (though I don't purchase music, I usually rip my own cds and I hate DRM'd mp3s). As far as I can tell I prefer the Tosh's UI over the iPod's and I couldn't care less for iTunes and I actually don't like the whole default Apple OS X look, so that player would have to really be the best for me to choose it (the only thing I like about it is the click wheel and it's not enough of a good feature for me to choose it over this). Anyways if I do go with the Tosh I'll give my impressions on it. Thanks for the help! 
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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I've got to clarify something here; there's been a lot of FUD about it. iTunes does NOT apply DRM to music you rip yourself. The DRM is only present in music purchased from the iTunes Store, and it's actually less restrictive than the Plays4Sure DRM. iTunes can rip as MP3, AAC (non-DRMed, and an actual standard used by other manufacturers), or Apple Lossless. Hell, it'll even do the CD standard.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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I figured that iTunes wouldn't DRM mp3s ripped from my own cds, but I didn't know it was more lenient than play for sure. Where can I find out the DRM restrictions for iTunes and play for sure? I'd like to compare them.
That's something I will keep in mind though I don't anticipate buying songs online anytime soon. I like to buy cds and then rip them if necessary.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Quote:
I have been impressed with the Sandisk series of MP3 players. Good price and sound quality, for an MP3 any way. My wife has the E series 512MB and it works great. My niece has a different Sandisk, can't remember the series but it too sounds good and was inexpensive.
We have been researching MP3 players for my 12 year old. She says "For Christmas, I would like an iPod." OK. Does she really mean iPod, or just an MP3 player. I realize that iPod presents a certain image thanks to good marketing.
So the new Microsoft Zune comes out. I think that it is cool to have the bigger screen, etc, but for a 12 year old girl who most likely prioritizes "small and cute" higher than "big and cool (at least to me)" it was out the door. Maybe Zune 2.0 in 2 years will be better.
Anyway, long story short, the top two that I could consistantly come up with top reviews were the iPod (obviously) and the Sansa e200 series MP3 players.
So, what did we do? We bought an iPod Nano (pink) and a Sansa e260. The Sansa was a little cheaper, and has a good (according to reviews) FM tuner, FM recorder, and voice recorder (don't know if that will get used). Our daughter likes listening to the radio too, so it seems like a better fit, but Best Buy was running a $25 gift card for an iPod purchase thing, so we will hang on to both, and let her pick at Christmas.
Good luck.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Your post did remind me of something I totally forgot to mention: The ability to listen to the radio with the mp3 player. This is something that I would definitely want since I do like the ability to listen to local stations (mostly for news, weather). Though that wouldn't be the most essential reason to choose one player over another, I don't like the fact that the iPod would require an optional add-on to be able to listen to FM radio (while the Toshiba player comes with a FM tuner).
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Quote:
Not sure if I agree 100% with ya hutt. The equipment, including the "ear buds" or a better pair of "buds" can make a world of distance. To me the stock Creative had much better sound than the new Ipods, but that is just me. They don't distort at higher levels like the Ipods, especially in the bass category.
Obviously a better set of headphones will make your music sound better . I was generally speaking that the MP3 players today are all pretty much the same concerning decoding the MP3 file and playing it with a good quality decompressor.
Like I said previously, it will be the softwear that makes 90% of the difference in how an MP3 sounds
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Zune has better sound quality then ipodI have two friends that picked up Zunes recently. One even got two (for him and his wife). Both familys replaced ipods and they both tell me they like the Zune a lot more than their ipods. I have a Sansa (e200) from Sandisk and I think its the best small player on the market, more features and better value then ipod nano. But you were looking for higher capacity so it's probably not an option for you.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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As stated in the comments on that link, "Zune has better sound quality than 4th generation iPods." The 5th generation iPods include a much better audio chip. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1777890,00.asp
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Side comment: What I still find funny is that people compare frequency response, and talk about how one MP3 player's sound is better than another. While I know that there are some legitimate arguments, it is still funny that we are talking about compressed audio, which in and of itself has stripped away upper and lower frequencies as well as other nuances to make the file size smaller. Someone said it to me like this. "It is like making 5 pies (yes, it is food related), but using 1/4 the sugar, and eliminating the crusts and trying to decide which one tastes better." Again, just a side comment, not meant to derail the conversion.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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It's difficult to derail a conversation that has no tracks and no wheels.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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What about legs?
They're implanting chips in dogs, right? So, if you could get that chip to hold some memory and be bluetooth capable, maybe you could leverage that new Sony thing and turn Fido (or Sunny or Tillie) into a passable, portable MP3 device.
Although I am a little concerned about the transducer parts. Woofer, indeed.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Get them to put the chip into your parakeet and have it stand on Fido, et al's head and you would have your woofer and tweeter... Running for cover...   WhatFurrer
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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>>We have been researching MP3 players for my 12 year old. She says "For Christmas, I would like an iPod." OK. Does she really mean iPod, or just an MP3 player...So, what did we do?
Being young and in school not too long ago (I am still young at 24, but I was still in highschool about 5 years ago). The iPod and the image that goes with it is what she is after.
Most likely all her friends have iPods (just like the rest of the world) and its more of a status thing. Sure she'll use it for playing music (why else buy one?) but she'll be playing music on an...IPOD!!!!!
Thats my prediction on what she'll pick...the iPod.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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The way your post reads Robb it sounds like you had a child at 12yrs of age.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Quote:
The way your post reads Robb it sounds like you had a child at 12yrs of age.
HAha,
Heeeeeelllll NO!
The wife and I have a strict 5 year plan! The theatre needs to built PRIOR to any kids, so that I have my domain of rest before the crazyness happens.
I can see how you would read the post like that, i was responding to the other poster.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Me being "the other poster" I found it funny too, but I knew what he was meaning to say... We have her pretty much convinced that she isn't getting any MP3 player, so now she is starting to "plead" with us. So right now she says that it would be OK if it wasn't an IPod, and she likes the idea that others (Sansa) have an FM tuner and you can record off the radio (not sure if that will every REALLY get used)... I wonder though. Our shipment came from Best Buy, and my wife opened it up. On top was the little plastic case with the clear front and you can see the pink IPod Nano is all of its girlish "cuteness". My wife loved it. Me, I dug down to the box of for the Sansa. Much larger packaging, and the only thing that tells you what is inside is an "actual size" picture on the box. You don't get to actually see the device. IPod wins on packaging in my book, and I am thinking that what my daughter says now, and what she will actually pick when she sees the "blingy" IPod are 2 different things....
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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I bet she'll choose the iPod! That kind of packaging always wins with girls (well at least it did with my sisters).
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Cam, i'm a little late to join the conversation, but considering the products you are mulling over, i should probably throw one more suggestion into the mix: ArchosI'm not sure how they compare to other players, but i selected the older model 402 last year because of one important function - the ability to upload pics to it directly from a mem card. At the time it was the only MP3 player i could find that had this functionality without being incredibly burdensome. The one thing i did notice on my trip as i was watching uploaded Arrested Development episodes or viewing freshly uploaded pics, was a number of people saying, "hey, my (insert MP3 player name) doesn't do that." So i assume it has a number of features that are hard to find. At any rate, it had the features that were important for me, and i've found that uploading and organizing pics & music has been very easy. One of the newer models might be worth your consideration, especially in light of the reasonable pricing. Good luck anywho!
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Further to this whole MP3 player thing.
We got Lisa's sister a Sandisk Sansa M240 for Christmas. She opened it today, and then I went to show her how to use it.
Throw in the included mini-CD (8cm)... watch it fall out of the vertically mounted CD-ROM tray three times in a row. Have it install the software... which turns out to be a WMP upgrade. Wow, thanks for putting all that R&D into a useful app for ripping and loading your product. Ah, well... I'll just give her a copy of CDeX later.
Hit the Rip tab, get her to give me her The Open Door CD, rip the first two tracks to WMA as a test. As stated in the instruction manual, treat it like a USB drive, drop the files onto the MP3 player... disconnect, attach to headphones... shows both files are on the player, but refuses to play them saying that it needs to be synced.
Flip to the sync tab (which, by the way, defaults to trying to update the player with anything remotely resembling an audio file, plus any TXT files that could sound like dance music if given half a chance)... cancel all that silliness, change the parameters of what gets synced...
Repeat over and over until I get frustrated enough that I see myself as a British nanny shaking the life out of this little plastic piece of crap.
I call Lisa in, usually she's got a better handle on how the great unwashed do things without custom applications for every project. She smugly says she's figured it out after 15 minutes, and shows me how you create a new sync profile... I congratulate her and suggest she go through it one more time with her sister so she's got it. So she does... trying to add one more song from the album onto the player... which works... and it deletes the previous track she just loaded.
Honestly, Sandisk... I know DRM is a big thing these days, but I've etched and soldered a PCB for an audio digitizer for the C64 and wrote assembly code to play back the resulting audio file... if I can't figure out the hoops to jump through to load songs onto your player, you've failed... you should have just packaged a tiny leprechaun in the back of the package that would jump out, bite me in the gonads and defecate on the floor. I might have had a better out of box experience.
Bren R.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Quote:
Further to this whole MP3 player thing.
We got Lisa's sister a Sandisk Sansa M240 for Christmas. She opened it today, and then I went to show her how to use it.
Throw in the included mini-CD (8cm)... watch it fall out of the vertically mounted CD-ROM tray three times in a row. Have it install the software... which turns out to be a WMP upgrade. Wow, thanks for putting all that R&D into a useful app for ripping and loading your product. Ah, well... I'll just give her a copy of CDeX later.
Hit the Rip tab, get her to give me her The Open Door CD, rip the first two tracks to WMA as a test. As stated in the instruction manual, treat it like a USB drive, drop the files onto the MP3 player... disconnect, attach to headphones... shows both files are on the player, but refuses to play them saying that it needs to be synced.
Flip to the sync tab (which, by the way, defaults to trying to update the player with anything remotely resembling an audio file, plus any TXT files that could sound like dance music if given half a chance)... cancel all that silliness, change the parameters of what gets synced...
Repeat over and over until I get frustrated enough that I see myself as a British nanny shaking the life out of this little plastic piece of crap.
I call Lisa in, usually she's got a better handle on how the great unwashed do things without custom applications for every project. She smugly says she's figured it out after 15 minutes, and shows me how you create a new sync profile... I congratulate her and suggest she go through it one more time with her sister so she's got it. So she does... trying to add one more song from the album onto the player... which works... and it deletes the previous track she just loaded.
Honestly, Sandisk... I know DRM is a big thing these days, but I've etched and soldered a PCB for an audio digitizer for the C64 and wrote assembly code to play back the resulting audio file... if I can't figure out the hoops to jump through to load songs onto your player, you've failed... you should have just packaged a tiny leprechaun in the back of the package that would jump out, bite me in the gonads and defecate on the floor. I might have had a better out of box experience.
Bren R.
O.K. Maybe my complaints about iTunes were a little off........
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 537
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 537 |
Hi Bren:
I was looking at a different Sandisk MP3 player on Futureshop and one of the comments in the reviews says to change the mode from autodetect to MSC and then you should be able to drag and drop files from Windows explorer to the player. Hopefully this helps.
2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,602
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,602 |
Quote:
I was looking at a different Sandisk MP3 player on Futureshop and one of the comments in the reviews says to change the mode from autodetect to MSC and then you should be able to drag and drop files from Windows explorer to the player. Hopefully this helps.
The help is appreciated, think she's coming over this week while she's off school, we'll try that.
She has managed to hobble it into working... keeping a specific folder full of songs that "should" be on the player on her hard drive and syncing from that. Still a bit less than optimal, but sort of working for now.
She's young... and used to GUIs programmed by drunken monkeys... I grew up with software written by guys like Jim Butterfield and Steve Gibson... those guys could do more with keyboard commands than most programmers can do now with their nested menus and alpha blending and their cha-cha-cha and do-re-mi. This frustrates me more than her... I'm guessing the same way things like having to remove inner fender wells to replace car batteries used to frustrate my auto instructor.
Bren R.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 537
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 537 |
I had sort of the same problem with my Samsung MP3 player. Out of the box the only way to use it is to sync it with Windows media player after looking around on the net I found a site that was helpful. There'a also a forum on this "Anything but IPOD site" for the Sansa. Sansa M200 series
2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422 |
Our oldest daughter had her choice of a shiny pink iPod Nano or a Sansa e260.... Despite what people were guessing here, she picked the Sansa e260. More features and functions. Wow! She actually has some logic behind her thoughts, who knew.
Anyway, it has been a breeze to use and to get music on it, etc. She is very happy with it. After all of my searching, it seems like the best "non-iPod" out there. Again, it actually has more features for less money so to me it is actually better. (oh, no... Here come the iPod fans....)
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 436
devotee
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OP
devotee
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 436 |
Well that's good that she chose function over looks! For my part I got the Gigabeat S60 and I'm very pleased with the performance. It does have the shortcomings that most people complain about: shorter battery life than iPod and using WMP11 to manage the music. For my part I think it works well for what I wanted. I was able to fit all my music on it and still have plenty of room (took me a whole week to rip my cds). Battery life is good enough for me and I do enjoy being able to listen to the radio (reception is pretty good). The only thing I would add to it is a customizable equalizer (the presets are not really good, but it sounds good flat anyway). All in all it's a great little player and I don't regret getting it instead of the iPod.
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 915
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 915 |
Personally, I own an iAudio which I think beats the ipod sound quality hands down. I stumbled across it a couple years ago while researching mp3 players myself. Of course, it helps that a LOT of sound enhancement features come with it. I love mine. I've got an older iaudio4. I've also been researching the recent multimedia players and I've decided to go with the Creative Zen Vision M. It plays more formats than ipod video and definitely beats the video quality. The earbuds I have are the Audio-Technica ATH-CK7. They sound fantastic...like mini Axioms in your ears!
M60s
VP150
QS8s
Marantz SR6003
Samsung LN52B550
Oppo DV-980H
Insignia NS-WBRDVD
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 |
Hey Mary! Good to see you! Thanks!
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: Need some advice about MP3 players
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,955 |
Probably too late but I have the Creative Zen Micro, 5GB version.
My conformist IPod friends agree that it sounds better than thier IPod but is half the price. Also, you still get to play with a slidy touch thingie, it's just vertical instead of round. It has an FM tuner but the radio sound is not the best.
I believe they now have new versions supporting pictures if you are into looking at photographs a couple of inches big.
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
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