Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Denon vs. Harman Kardon with M80, VP150, QS8

I currently am running these speakers on a Denon 1602, which is a very low end receiver. I have decided it is time to upgrade, as I just heard my M80's on a higher end receiver, and there was clearly a difference, especially in the power and sound of the bass.

As is, I am looking at a few used units, either Denon 3805 or HK AVR 435 or 635. Do any of you have experience with these units combined with these speakers?

The Denon has some nicer features in terms of HDCD and Pure Direct mode.

However the HK has a built in auto EQ and I have always been told that HK amps are stronger.

I am also hoping this will have the Ext Inputs for HD DVD and/or Bluray inputs. Are those 7.1 discreet or more channels?

Thanks for any info in helping me choose.

Best wishes in 2007.

The 3805 also has Auto Setup and RoomEQ, however, I do not recommend you use the EQ part. I found it makes my 60's and 80's sound a lot worse, with to much midrangr. My guess is you could get a 2807 (newer generation) for the same price which adds the advanced Audyssey room setup which compensates for room acoustics from 6 locations and also adds better HDMI capability versus the 3806.

My H/K 525 seems to work just fine with M80s, but I haven't tried those specific models (or anything other than the H/K, for that matter). I also don't use the 80s at veyr high volumes, generally.

From what I have been researching, the HK's would be good enough to drive the M80's with out any problems. I have had my eye on used ones on Ebay, 1/2 price for both the exact same models you listed. As far as the Denon goes I own the 1804 and I would recommend you look at the 3806 or 2807 as these are the latest from Denon. The 2807 is a little cheaper and almost identical to the 3806, HDMI 1.1 compatible but has a few watts/channel less. I am struggling right now to not get anything but I am leaning towards the 2807(new) and the HK635(used) about the same price and virtually the same features ie. auto setups etc.

in my quest for a new receiver i considered HK. I dont think I have ever listened to an HK , so was unbiased either way.

what closed it for me was not only the number of complaints I had read about recent quality issues, but the shear number of remanufactured equipment that HK is selling on their own website, let alone what others are selling at huge discounts. I clicked on every authorized Denon remanufactured online reseller, and for the price range I was looking at, not much was available. I guess the appearance of an abundance of reman's for HK and the apparent limited availability of reman Denon, was the nail in the coffin for HK for me. I'm not knocking HK's working products, as I said I have never heard one.

not sure if these are good deals or not but here they are.
on HK's site:
reman avr 435-z $447
reman avr 635-z $598
if I was considering a non authorized HK purchase, I would give the HK reman a consideration.

hth
Randy

I noticed that same thing before I bought my Denon, as you said that was the clincher for me, all those remans out there. But I have heard HK's and they seem to have power to spare... so they are back onmy list..........

Every time I hear Ken comment on the M80's, something snaps inside my head.

Randy,

I do understand where you are coming from, however, Ecost.com does sell a lot of Denon's that are refurb. Also, it is hard to say just how many units are sold by each. More sales = more refurbs.

My main reason for wanting HK over Denon is the higher amperage, as my speakers are lower impedance. You need more current to play a speaker at the same volume when the impedance drops. I do not know how high of a current the higher end Denons will send.

The AutoEQ functions I've heard both positive and negative feedback for both, so I wonder if they are all that good on either unit.

personally I dont like the auto EQ on my denon 2807, but it is still early in the game. The Audessey setting sounds like a tunnel. sometimes the front setting is ok. most of the time i keep it off.

As far as level adjustments, it is very accurate. I dont like how it sets my M22's as large though. I can change it manually but then whenever I 'revert' to the reciever calculated levels, I have to change them back to small and set crossover at 80

a guy i work with went into a high end audio retailer here in town , Ovation, and they sold him an HK, and he loves it.

good luck with whatever you decide.

Randy

Board regular mdrew HATES HK with a purple passion at the moment, but he may have different issues.

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personally I dont like the auto EQ on my denon 2807

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Most the Denon owners on the board keep the auto eq off, seems to hurt the sound more than help.

sometimes i do turn the auto EQ on on poorly mixed electric guitar heavy rock music. not chorus effected picking style guitar, but overdriven distortion style.

i am amazed at how different my old standards sound.
a lot of hard rock is too grainy and muddled,
but elton johns greatest hits was as smoother than when i first fell in love with it. I probably still need to tweek it some more, but after awhile i just wanna listen with my eyes closed :smiley_face_of_eyes_closed:

Randy

my first months bill from lala.com is going to be over the top. for it to work well you need an autonotifier (plugin) when someone is requesting your disks.

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personally I dont like the auto EQ on my denon 2807

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Most the Denon owners on the board keep the auto eq off, seems to hurt the sound more than help.

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Ravi,

If your current Denon has pre-outs have you considered getting separates? This might be an option for you as well.

This is the problem, I have a really low end Denon without pre-outs. If I did, I'd keep using it.

There is a used 435, and I am tempted to pick it up. I hear it's a great unit, and I can get it not too expensive.

I don’t know if I “hate” HK, but I am most definitely disappointed with them. I’ve owned HK’s on and off for just about 25 years now. I like the way they sound, they have always been at the leading edge with technology and until recently, they were very dependable. Heck, I still have an old two channel integrated amp that I had when I was a teenager and it works great.

I had to have my 7200 sent in for warranty work about 18 months ago. Come to find out, this was a fuse problem that just about every 7200 had. No notice or help from HK. It was a simple five minute fix but HK insisted the unit go to one of their shops for replacement. While waiting for my 7200 to be repaired, I bought a 7300. I sold the 7200 after the dam fuse was replaced.

I then had to send my 7300 back for multiple issues three months ago. Same thing as the 7200, I wasn’t alone with these issues.

I now am sending my 745 back for multiple issues. Same thing again. I’m not alone.

I do not know the inner workings or management structure of Harman International. But if I was a betting man, I’d bet that they’ve recently gone through a re-org that has affected their quality assurance department. It just isn’t what it used to be. I’ve had bad luck with their last three ‘flagship’ receivers, so that makes me wonder about the rest of their lines.

All that aside, the 635 has a large following of happy owners. This may just be the last of the ‘good ones’. I wouldn’t be afraid to buy one if it had the features I wanted. I can’t recommend that anyone buy one of their new receivers though. They have tremendous capabilities and functionality, but in my opinion, they just are not holding up or working as advertised.

Strange about the happy 635 owners, I heard those had a board issue that was known by HK. Apparently the 4x5 series are very solid. I am looking into a used 435...

Anyway, I'm taking my time, I'll see what comes my way.

Any other suggestions are welcome!

I power my M80s with an HK AVR630 and they sound fantastic. Although I have had my receiver in the shop twice to fix some factory defects. Both times covered by the warranty, so other than the inconvenience of bringing it into the shop, I've been thrilled with the receiver.

Add to that the fact that it can set different crossovers for each speaker group, I love it.

Mine is a little outdated in terms of lacking HDMI inputs, but this won't be an issue for me until I finally upgrade to HD-DVD/Bluray.

Ravi,

Axiom is now an exclusive on-line distributor of Sherwood Newcastle AV receivers and amps. We bench-tested the receiver models at the plant and even the least expensive AV unit (combined with a DVD player; no longer available) will drive the 4-ohm M80s with no current limiting or shut-down. They have very robust amplifiers and are worth looking into.

Regards,

Alan, I'll definitely take a look at them.

Will there soon be a page on the Axiom website displaying them?

Will you be bench testing the new Sherwood Newcastle 972? Any idea on when it will be available?
Don

The new R-972 is supposed to have 6 HDMI inputs, that are v1.3- and the receiver is supposed to also have Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA support. Retail is supposed to be $1499. Nice.

I saw that today on another website and it perked my interest. Perhaps we can get a good price from Axiom!! I would like to hear Alan's opinion on the 972.
Don

If I could offer one piece of constructive criticism to improve Axioms "communication", it would simply be that I wish there was a system in place for "press releases" beyond the newsletters.

It seems that often something is mentioned in passing that, to many of us, qualifies as big news and yet there's no "informational release" via this forum or perhaps a nice HTML or .PDF e-mail.

They do everything else right, though!

Hi Don,

I'm sure we'll get a 972 in and put it through a bunch of tests. I'll certainly post here when that happens.

Regards,

Alan, I don't see anything about the Sherwoods on the web site. Am I just missing it, or is this development not yet being advertised?

Jack, er, uhm, you aren't missing anything. There isn't anything on the site yet. My bad. I kind of let it slip out prematurely. Perhaps I got swept up in the audio-video overload of the Consumer Electronics Show. Stay tuned for a formal announcement later on.

Regards,

My lips are sealed.

Jack,

Ha, ha! I jumped the gun on this. In fact, we are still testing various Sherwood Newcastle models to determine which ones we want to carry.

There will be a formal announcement when we reach a decision on that.

Regards,

This wouldn't be at the same time you are announcing the Axiom Amp is it?