Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Help decide HT... again. (But with pics/diagram!)

OK… so perhaps this IS about my third post on the same general topic. I am now almost really, really, really almost ready to make the purchase (and this may or may not be about the third time I've said that). At this point, I’m admittedly overdoing it… but want to be sure that my $2000-3000 is as well-spent as possible. This time, however, I have a superfantastic photoshop diagram (my first ever photoshop creation) and some pics.

I'm pretty much settled on Epic 60 or Grand Master 5.1 setup with the EP500. Please check out my diagram and pics, and let me know if you think otherwise, or if you think I’ll be exceeding the needs of the room. Room is about 2450 cu ft, not including a hallway that joins the room and another “open” doorway that adjoins another room. (Pics will explain things well enough.)

Issues decided at this point:

EP500 (97% certain) and QS8s (99.9% certain). I would step it down to the EP350 if someone were to convince me that the EP350 would also knock my socks off… but I’ve read so many great things about the EP500 that I’m pretty much sold and willing to spend the $$$ and avoid updgradeitis. The QS8s are also a done deal. No reason to step down to QS4s unless someone has a very compelling argument.

Issues still to decide:

VP100 or VP150? Seating position will be 13-14 feet away. I'd prefer the VP100 as it would fit on the TV, whereas I'd probably have to go with a stand for the VP150. I'm not necessarily against the VP150 on a stand, but it would be nice to save $250ish (VP150 upgrade + stand cost) if the VP100 would be adequate. This issue isn’t that big of a deal, as I can always try out a VP100, and return it for a VP 150 within 30 days if it isn’t satisfactory (I don’t think shipping costs would be ridiculous for one VP100). Anyway, of you already think the VP100 simply won’t cut it, please let me know. Here’s a tougher question…

M60s or M22s w/stands? This is probably “the” biggest undecided factor at this point. A few issues with this... the sub "must" go in the back corner (cave) for WAF. As such, it seems the M60s would be better to put some bass in the front soundstage and help "hide" the sub. However, the speakers "must" generally sit right next to the TV, which only puts them about 6 ft apart, and also the left main will be stuck in the little cranny. I'd like to be able to move the fronts out a bit for "serious" watching (movies) to widen the soundstage, as well as get the left main out of the little hole. M22s on stands would make this possible, while M60s, perhaps not. With M60s, by the time you got some space behind the ports (considering the depth of the speaker) it seems the front of the M60 would be 2+ feet in front of the screen and center channel… which seems a dubious proposition. So... M60s for added bass or M22s for ease of movement? I should mention that the WAF engineer prefers the look of M22s on stands, and I don’t mind the reduced cost (M22s w/stands save approx $275 at outlet prices). SO… is my “moving the speaker” plan nonsense in the first place? Though 6 ft of separation certainly isn’t ideal between the L/R at my seating distance… are the benefits of moving the speakers probably negligible? What about the left main being in that hole? Not that big of a deal, all things considered? Alternatively, is my “hiding the sub” plan either (a) not going to happen, or (b) going to work equally well with M22s/M60s?

And though not a purchas issue… what about QS8 placement? I know this is a “try it and see” suggestion, usually, but any advance thoughts are welcome. I’m currently thinking the best placement is on the side walls, approx 2 ft from the rear wall, near the ceiling (I have to clear the door on the left side). Dropping the speaker wire from the ceiling above the speaker is possible and meets WAF criteria. I will probably mount right on the wall, but may consider use of ceiling/wall brackets to tip the QS8s a bit downward? The other option is rear wall mounting on either side of the window, at any height. (There will be curtains on the window soon.) That would probably be fairly easy wiring… I wouldn’t need to run anything through the walls, as the curtains will hide most of the wire except the 6-12 inches that will run horizontally out from behind the curtain to the speaker.

Note: The speakers you’re currently seeing are some Klipsch loaners from a friend. Dimensions are worth mentioning for reference… Sub is 16w x 17d x 23h; Center channel is 20w x 7d x 7h; L/R speakers are 9.25w x 9.5d x 20h.

Another note: The size of the "cave" the sub sits in actually is bigger than it appears in the pic... the top of the couch sticks out further than the bottom. (So the area near sub on the the floor is bigger than the pic shows.) Plus, I'll be moving the "top" of the couch about 6" from each wall.

FINAL NOTE: THE RUG WAS FREE! So don’t knock it! If you can’t make out the detail, it is a glorious bird and fruit motif... which isn't really what we're going for. It will probably be replaced (which is part of the current delay in curtain purchasing).

Any other comments or suggestions are welcome! Thanks everyone for your help on my previous posts, and thanks in advance for your help on this one! Without further ado... the pics.

I think the rug really ties the room together.

The rug looks good.

Fairly large room there, the M22's would work but I would go with the 60's and mount the QS 8's on either side of the window, never really liked things hung over a door for fear of it falling. The QS work well from almost anywhere in the rear position. Again the Vp 100 would work but the size of the room I think you would be happier with the 150. You're trying to send sound a fair distance. I think you couldn't go wrong witht he 500 as people are saying it is worth the money. Good luck

No question, go for the 500. You won't be disappointed and wondering "what if?" The VP100/150 isn't so easy. If you do a search, some will say not that big a difference, some say huge difference. Regardless, there is a lot to be said for avoiding that "what if" feeling.

I'll second the suggestion for putting the QS8's on the back wall. There isn't a lot of room above the door for the top woofer to "breathe". I'm quite happy with mine on the back wall.

Hello
Nice Pictures.

I have qs4 and they seem fine, but most people on here have the qs8, so I dont think you are off track with them. I know you mentioned not running wires in the wall, but if you did you would have to consider the insulation in the walls, as those are external walls.

I have the vp100, and I am always messing with the levels. When listening to music I will run the center hotter and cooler to see what effect it has. Usually it is the vocals in the center. At higher volumes, I do hear a difference in tonality that is maybe what some people describe as strained. I'd like to have the vp150, although the vp100 does fit nice on my tv stand. It looks like your tv can accomadate it, so my vote is for the vp150.

I would love to have an ep500. Have you looked at the dimensions of the ep500 on the website and verified it would fit ?. I know you mentioned moving the couch and stuff. I recently moved my sub to get a flatter response in my room, and the sub is now close to the couch. The sub sounds localized, meaning I can tell the bass is not coming from the same place as the mains. It isnt a big deal with movies, but i dont like it with music. I have tried adjusting the setting to blend it in better, but havent achieved nirvanna with it yet. I am probably going to move my sub back closer to the mains. Maybe you can start out with the sub behind the couch, and as years pass and you get a new tv you hang on the wall, and put the sub underneath it.

I have m22 and i think they would fill your room. If the sub was out front i think it would work perfect. I do agreee it would be good to get further separation of the front speakers during high enjoyment times. You also mentioned the M60 sticking out and the waf. my vote is for the m22 with stands. you could take the $ you save on the m22/stands and get the vp150.

I have M22's in Indianapolis if you would like to hear them. I am trying to get my brother to get some M60's, but it hasnt happened yet.

I'm sure no matter what you do , it'll be great.
hth

Randy

Nice pics Mark, you have a beautiful home and thanks for sharing ... your paint color, Sherwin Williams 'Golden Fleece' by any chance? The color looks identical to the paint in our TV/music room.

If the fund were available I'd most definitely go with the 500 over the 350 and I'd also spring for the 150 with the distance you have. As far as the mains, I also believe the 60s would be right at home next to the big TV.

Regarding surround placement, it *looks* as though the QSs would would be at, or very near the 90 degree angle from the seating position if they were located just to the right of the doorway and just to the right of the window on the opposite wall?

Ok... thanks for the responses thus far! To address a few points:

Nope... not Sherwin Williams paints. I can't actually remember what it is. It's manufactured by one the name brands (a big one that I can't remember), and "licensed" by Eddie Bauer. "Bungalow Gold." Ironic that I remember it is "Eddie Bauer Bungalow Gold" but can't remember who actually makes it. Marketing gone awry, I suppose.

And back on topic ...

I'm already sold on the EP500, and extremely excited to get one. I only mentioned the EP350 as a possibility in case some incredibly persuasive person could convince me to save money and buy an EP350. AND NO ONE EVEN TRIED!!!

Regarding QS8 placement: I note that Axiom sells the ceiling mounts, which doesn't necessarily mean they are optimal... but are folks generally of the opinion that those mounts detract from the speaker's effectiveness by placing the top woofer too close to the ceiling? (If I mount above the door, I'll probably use a wall bracket to drop the QS8 down over the trim, maintaining clearance over the door... but getting a few more inches of top clearance.)

Also... if I mount the QS8s in front of the door as was suggested, I end up with them being about 2 feet in front of the listening position... which seems a bit far?

Finally (and I'd REALLY like feedback on this one)... what does everyone think of my plan to potentially move the fronts during dedicated watching periods? If they are in the alcove area, they're separated by about 6 feet, at a distance of 13-14 feet. Helpful to move them out? Or a waste of time? (No to mention the fact that I don't know which position I'd "calibrate" them in...) If moving is a silly idea, I'm probably going M60s all the way.

Thanks again for your help, everyone.

Mark
From your listening distance, moving the mains to something like 10-12 feet apart would greatly improve your sound stage while listening to music and provide a similar improvement for panning scenes during movies. For best results while listening to music (I'm not sure if this applies equally for movie, but suspect it does) many "experts" recommend starting with the main speakers and your listening position forming an equal-angle triangle and then adjusting them from there (often moving them a little closer together if speakers are small relative to listening distance or toeing them in a little). Moving your speakers into the R2 and L2 positions will accomplish this.

As to M22's versus M60's, my experience is with M22's in a room half the size of yours (almost same depth and nearly half width) so I can't really offer much of an informed opinion about whether to go with the 22's or 60's. I love my 22's but if I had a room of your size I think I'd seriously consider the M60's. I suggest you give Axiom a call and ask their advice. They are pretty objective about such enquires (not prone to upselling). It may come down to how loud you like to listen to music/movies.

Although it was a little stressful at times, I really liked this stage in the HT buying process (the research and all the things to consider when making your choice of speaker etc.).

Enjoy - Paul