Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater axiom epic 60/350 or klipsch synergy f-3

ok, so i am sure to get a biased response around here but...
i have about a 2k budget. I listenedd to klipsch synergy f-3 speakers at best buy and I liked them.

link here: http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/f-3-home-theater-system.aspx

some people over at avs forum suggested axiom speakers instead, and I have read nothing but great reviews. I wish I could hear them, I like the 30 day trial but hate to pay $200 to ship them back if I do not like them.

anyway- I was just wanting to get some input from people about these speakers... maybe someone who has heard the klipsch speakers as well.

Also, I could save some cash and get the axiom epic 50/350...

The receiver I am buying is the new Yamaha RX-V661


link here: http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=547398

it is rated at 90 watts per channel, and It may be 6 months+ before I can purchase an external amp... so would I be better off getting the axiom epic 50's over the 60's? is 90 watts per channel going to push the 60's until i can get an amp?

any comment sof the klipsch vs axiom, or the epic 60's vs the 50's are welcomed.

Where do you live?

There are many former Klipsch owners on this forum, including Klipschguy, who really needs to change his screen name.

I can tell you that from owning many brands of "retail chain" speakers in the past like infinity, polk, etc. That your not going to find anything at a Best Buy that will compare to Axiom speakers.

One of my best friends is a regional manager for Best Buy, and even he will admit Axiom is a true Audiophile grade speaker.

Which speakers you decide on depends on many things. What are your listening habits, music vs home theater? How big is your room?

Also, keep in mind you can order form Axiom's factory outlet and save 10%, plus another 5% if you order 5 of any items from Axiom.

Why do you think you need an external amp? That AVR would most likely give you everything you would ever require. An efficient speaker like Axiom having say 95dB efficiency only requires 1 watt to achieve that 95dB at 3ft distance from the speaker, that is pretty darn loud.

I live in North east Oklahoma.

I am not sure of the size of my room b/c I am moving. I am currently in an apartment and will be moving into a rent house. I am going to try and find a place with a decent sized living room, but I haven't had the chance to look yet. This is my first home theater system, so I wasn't sure if an external amp would be needed for these speakers.


I see where they deducted 5% for purchasing the 5 items together, but does that price include the 10% discount?

as for use: I will be using it for gaming (xbox 360), movies and music. probably substantial amounts of all three, but a focus on high def gaming w/ surround.
I will be watching dvds on my 360 or downloading the high def movies with 5.1 via the xbox live market place until I take the plunge and nab and hd-dvd or blu-ray player to hook up via hdmi.

Anyway- I want some speakers that I can play loud with all types of music, while maintaining clarity.
I am not sure what to look for from a 5.1 theater system as this is my first purchase... but ideally I want something that has clarity and shaprness during quite dialogue scenes, but has some serious bass and kick during actions scenes and explosions. a smooth transition of sound from front to back is important (like if an airplane is flying overhead)

anyway... I Think I will be going axiom... but since it is a bit over my budget I am going to have to save up a little cash (The 0% interest for 18 months on other speakers from various retailers would be a plus)

but, I have a good amount of the money, and won't be getting a house until the end of june, so i have time to save. If i am going to spend 2k on a sound system, I don't want to be the least bit dissapointed.

* that center channel and upgraded subt aht come with the 60/500 system is very attractive!

Being a first home theater purchase anyone think i would be at any way dissapointed with the vp100 or ep350 as opposed to the vp 150 or ep500?

the $700 price difference seems steep... and I think the package set listed with the epic 60/350 set would be fine, but man the vp150 center channel looks sexy

I would not buy Klipsch over Axiom. I auditioned both side-by-side in my house. I can tell you that I was moved to tears with my Epic-80 system when I finally got it positioned right. I still cannot believe that I can get the wide, deep and tall sound-stage that I'm getting from two speakers when I'm listening to music. When people come over, they refuse to believe that I only have two speakers turned on. I hear instruments two to three feet away from my speakers, behind me, in between the speakers...you name it. The imaging and clarity are incredible on very good recordings.

The 500 sub should be great for you no problem at all. I have the EP600 in a 4000 cubic foot room in the basement and have it set very, very low. Even at this low setting, it rattles the entire house upstairs during movies (in a good way ). I have 7" of safe n' sound mineral insulation in my ceiling, 9" fir floor joists, and all drywall is glued and screwed. My house is really tight and the EP600 is just a monster! It's scary because you can feel what's going on...not just hear. Sometimes you can feel it and not hear it which is really unnerving actually. So I know that the 500 will be good enough for you in what sounds to me like a smaller space.

I hope you get your Axiom system and join musical Nirvana like some of us.

You might want to check page 1 of the Audition thread in the "hearing things" section, I haven't looked at it in awhile, but there may be someone close. Otherwise, send a PM to Amie or Andrea at Axiom. They sometimes have a list of other people willing to let you listen to Axiom. That is what sold me. Heck drive up to Iowa, I"m 3hrs from KC.

If you order from the factory outlet, you get 10% off the regular prices, plus if you get 5 items (including accessories) you get another 5%. The 5% you get on the regular stock also off of reg prices. Most of us order from the outlet, you won't be disapointed.

fyi I was looking at the ep350 sub not the 500 sub. I said the 500 sub and the 150 center looked sexy, but bring things over my budget.

I am fond of deep loud bass... anyone have the 350 sub and can comment on it's performance?

so the prices listed in the shopping cart include the 5% discount but not the 10% discount? How would I find out if I qualified for the 10% discount.. (do I have to be in a certain part of th US?)

I owned a 350 prior to my 500 and prior to my current 600. A lot depends on the room size, dimensions, placement of the sub, etc.. The 350 is a very good sub and used to be the king of the hill, before the 500 and 600 came out. They really are in another league as they are a different digital designed sub.

I was very happy with my 350 in my upstairs smaller room, but when I moved down to the basement, it just could not move as much air as the 500 or 600 as my ht/recroom is 30ft x 31ft x 9ft ceilings.

T, welcome. Unless your listening room is very large and you listen at very loud levels to material with a very wide dynamic range you may well find that the 661 is all you need to power M60s. You shouldn't assume a need for more power unless actual results(e.g. audible distortion, shutting down)establish such a need.

Hi there, after owning the "flagship" Klipsch Rf83 for 5 months, I sold them and now have the M80's. The step up in sound is night and day, klipsch have notorious "harsh" highs and seriously lack any mids at all, imaging is not even close to the Axioms.

My recommend is to buy the best speakers that you can afford, they are the foundation of your system and will make or break it. Any decent receiver will do the job untill the upgrade bug bites and then you still have a good speaker system.

Enjoy and have fun

Chris

I'm on board with you there, guys. This all means that my Emotiva credit is doo-doo, unless I buy a heated warehouse for the sole purpose of moving my HT in there. It seems that pre pros and exteranal amp packages are all the rage. My guess is that these individuals are driving inefficient speakers. Am I wrong?

You could always pick up a BPA 1 and then sell it on Audiogon. You would loose nothing and gain a little cash.

There are a few other threads debating Klipsch vs. Axiom sound quality. Everyone 'hears' differently. Personally and un-appologetically (spelling czars, calm down), I don't think Klipsch makes any speakers that sound very good. I've never heard one, even going all the way up to their flagship lines, that sound like they are worth the cost. Harsh and screechy highs, blubbery/ponderous bass that's as delicate as a grand piano falling off a balcony. Loud, but not pretty. That's my OPINION, and not a fact, please take it as such.

Axiom speakers are accurate and detailed, if nothing else. Shoot a PM to Amie, or check out the auditions thread to see if there's anyone near you offering demos. If you can't hear Axiom's, in my opinion the closest-to-axiom-sound speakers I've heard that are 'commonly' found would be the Vienna Acoustic Mozarts found in Best Buy Magnolia centers. They remind me quite a bit of my m22's, or almost like m80's but with a touch less low-end. They are lovely sounding (and looking!) speakers. While you're there, note that little tag that says $1,750 is for *each*.

Regarding subs...

While I have not heard the EP500/600 nor the EP350, it's been discussed a lot around here. The EP500/600 are commonly accepted to be amazing subs. They are truly excellent for their price, but they aren't cheap. While there's nothing wrong with the EP350, if your budget is for $500-$800 subs, you can get more bang-for-your-buck by going with SVS or HSU. SVS and HSU make some killer subs in that range that are usually regarded to be just a touch 'more awesome' than the EP350.

regarding 'factory direct' purchases.

Does anyone have any pics of what a "slight blemish" is? The customer service rep said there is NO way I would notice these blemishes on my speakers from my couch. I would have to inspect them closely to even notice them. The waiting period is not a huge deal... and saving 10% on a 3k system is great!

You'll find many others reference this as well if you do a search.... but the short version is that very often the purchaser can't find ANY blemishes and sometimes they can find one if they search hard for it (I'm talking up close).

So its a blemish on the fisnish....not like a chiped corner or something like that.

The customer rep I spoke with said that the blemishes are jsut that- a minor defect in the finish. No chipped or peeling corners or panels, or cracks. They are 100% the same sound wise, but a small visual blemish or two may be present...

again he said it would be hard to see unless you were specifically looking for it,

I just hoping for some opinions from someone who has actually purchased through the factory

Many here have ordered from factory outlet...myself included. I couldn't find any blemishes on mine.

ok, so suppose I purchase the axiom epic 60/500 5.1 home theater. What cables am I going to need to hook these guys up to my yamaha 661 receiver?

Just speaker wire along the lins of this....

what about for the sub?

I would recommend something along the lines of this in the appropriate length...

Yep, wired the Media Room with the 12AWG Belden from Blue Jeans Cable and it's fantastic stuff. Reasonably priced too.

I also ordered a few feet of the Canare 4S11 Quadstar and made some of my own cables for the front speakers. That was fun, if unnecessary, and they look really nice (think WAF). The locking banana plugs they sell are very nice and accommodate VERY large gauges.

One bummer is that I ended up buying too many of those locking bananas because I was thinking (incorrectly) that I could use bananas on the QS8s with the T-bracket. I've since learned that there is simply not enough room for that and I'll have to connect bare wire. I guess I'll have to Ebay them or something.

I cut the t-bracket. The t-bracket is over-designed.

Regarding stands for the surrounds that come with the epic 60 5.1 system. I guess they require a special stand due to their unique design...

The wall mounts and the stands on the axiom website seem ok, but are a little costly

Anyone have any ideas as far as mounting these things on the wall or some stands that are fairly cheap?

My buddy makes stainless steel countertops and other stuff for a living and he made some nicely polished stainless steel speaker stands for his home theater (they were small speakers out of a box set.) I may try and pursuade him tomake me some special stands with a hole cut in the bottom or something... but not sure if he has the extra time.)

also: Sorry for keeping this thread alive so long, I just keep comming up with more questions!

This thread has turned from "axiom or klipsch" to "how do I set up my axioms"

thanks for all the advice by the way!

I do have pics of the blemishes i received on my speakers, however from my past posts the links to those photos may no longer be available.
If you are still interested, send me a PM and i'll see about reposting a few.
Just to note, our VP150 was a Factory Outlet unit and i have yet to find any flaw whatsoever.
I can only wonder if someone made a boo boo at the Factory but i'm more inclined to think that the Axiom QA/QC program is top notch. My visit to the Factory only solidified that opinion.

Sure. You know the vertical part of the T? I simply cut that off about half-way down so that it didn't interfere with the connection port.

The surrounds come with metal T-brackets. Mount the brackets to the wall and hang the surrounds on the brackets. Works great!

I mounted my centre with the full-metal bracket from Axiom. It looks great just floating there in space .

ok one last question, being that I orginally had budgeted 2k for speakers... I have decided that I have to have the m-60, ep-500 sub, and qs-8 surrounds. I really want the vp150 centerchannel too.. it looks nice and Im sure it sounds just as great.

However, I love bass, and am not willing to settle for a cheaper sub, especially after all the reviews I have read about the ep-500 sub (at audioholics and other places)

so if I get teh vp 100 center channel instead of the 150, and If I purchase from the factory outlet then that brings my total to 2.5 kilo-bucks... only slightly over my budget.

2.7+ kilobucks if i go for the 150 model center.

Obviosly the 150 will be better then the 100, BUT... I am not sure If it is worth the extra cash.

can anyone comment on the performace of the vp-100 vs the 150?

Will I be satisfied with the smaler center? during dialogue scenes will I think "Man I should have spent the extra 0.2 kilobucks?"

I have not A/B'ed the two myself but there is supposed to be very little difference in sound between VP100 and VP150 -- the main difference is that the VP150 can play louder which helps with larger rooms.

I own the VP100 myself and have never felt it lacking.

Are you going to be using these with a projector or with a more conventionally sized screen ? The reason I'm asking is that one easy solution might be to simply put off the center channel purchase for now and buy it when you know what your final room size is going to be. If you tell your receiver that you have no center channel it will automatically split the center channel signal between the M60s, for so-called "phantom center" operation.

It works surprisingly well unless your mains are widely separated.

Yes T, as John B. has just mentioned, the M60s can form a very good "phantom" center for someone about equidistant from them. So, if anything has to give because of the budget, let it be temporarily doing without an actual center speaker.

No projector, I have a 50" sony grand wega lcd-rp.
as I mentioned I am not sure what size my room will be. i could wait to purchase my setup until after i find a place but I would rather have my stuff ready to hook up when i move in ...plus the wait time is 6 weeks for factory outlet speakers right now, so I would like to order them sometime soon.

Regardless, I do not think my living area will be HUGE so it sounds like the vp-100 will do. In a few years after I get settled into my job and think about buying a house instead of renting then I can always upgrade to a larger center if needed.

once again thanks for all the input, this is by far one of the most helpful places I have been with regards to my home theater questions!

I would take a long look at the SVS and HSU subs if you can't afford the EP500.

And for goodness sake please don't use klipsch in the same sentence as axiom ... omg, I just did!

I compared and it is no contest. In fact I compared to the BW 703s and thought the Axiom M60's were much better. I do think a good sub is a must though.