 Re: newbie questions on subwoofer level
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Quote:
For your jeans to be flapping and the house to be shaking did you crank up the sub volume quite a bit from its calibrated setting?
I can foresee some funny answers to this, but I'll ask anyway: how do you know if you're watching/listening with too much bass, especially when listening to classical and other music?
Admittedly, when I was watching LOTR:ROTK I had my sub calibrated at 90dB SPL and all other speakers calibrated to 75 dB. After talking with Sirquack about sub settings, I've turned my EP600 down to 80dB. I have to tell you though that my jeans still flap and my house shakes at low frequencies. I watched parts of Blackhawk Down again with these new settings and the couch was still dancing and pictures were shaking upstairs. I really don't know if this is what the sound mixer had in mind but I can tell you that this is not the effect that I experienced in the theatre with both of these movies. I do believe that what I am hearing and feeling is very realistic though and is not exaggerated.
As for your question on music, I have my cross-over set to 40 Hz for music and 80 Hz for movies. I also turn the amp's sub volume down by 3 dB when listening to music. The best advice that I can give you is that your bass should blend with the rest of your speakers and not stand out when you are listening to music. I spent a lot of time listening and tweaking to get this right.
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Re: newbie questions on subwoofer level
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 72 |
Dave and mojo,
Thank you for sharing your experiences and advice. Good info.
Regards,
Rodney
Rodney
Denon AVR-3312ci
Mains: M22 v2
Center: VP150 v2
Surrounds: QS8s v2
Sub: HSU VTF-2 MK3
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Re: newbie questions on subwoofer level
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853 |
Quote:
I think you will find many in both camps. Mine is setup pretty much flat with the RadioShack SPL meter, but with no correction factor for the meter. It's really personal preference. You want the bass to sound powerful when called upon, but not over emphasized so that it's always overbearing. It's my opinion that it is more dynamic and engaging for a soundtrack to surprise you with the low LFE at moments in the film, not loud all the time.
You also don't want to drown out the detail your other speakers are providing with too much LFE.
Again, this is just my opnion. YMMV.
My opinion too.  That's how I recommend people set up subs either single or multiple. Keep in mind that 75db on the RS SPL metre is actually 2.5db hot relative to the other speakers measured at 75db. At 80db on the metre you are calibrating the sub 7.5db hot. I currently have 3 subs in my HT combined measuring 74db or 1.5db hot. I find at that level they shake all seats when required, give ambience in quiet scenes and don't bloat musical soundtracks.
John
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Re: newbie questions on subwoofer level
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 280
local
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local
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 280 |
John, are you sure about the direction of inaccuarcy of the the Radio Shack SPL meter? It actually underestimates the sound level at lower frequencies as evidenced by correction tables. So if the sub is calibrated to 75 dB along with everything else, it will be around 2dB "cold", not "hot", compared to the satellites. I too prefer the bass effects to come as a briskly felt surprise rather than an ever present boominess. The openning battle scene in Master and Commander is one of my favorites for testing the capabilities of the EP-500.
John
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Re: newbie questions on subwoofer level
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833 |
Jakeman is correct on adding around 2.5db to the RadioShack meter reading.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Re: newbie questions on subwoofer level
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 72 |
When I got my RS SPL meter 2 weeks ago, they only had the digital version. Does the 2.5 dB apply to it, too?
Last edited by Rodney; 04/29/07 03:18 AM.
Rodney
Denon AVR-3312ci
Mains: M22 v2
Center: VP150 v2
Surrounds: QS8s v2
Sub: HSU VTF-2 MK3
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Re: newbie questions on subwoofer level
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853 |
Yes it does. Both analog and digital Radio Shack meters are fairly consistent (standard deviation is about 0.5-1.0dB) and accurate - especially when measuring the midrange. It maxes out at 125dB. It is less accurate for measuring low frequencies. Note that the 2.5db correction factor applies at approximately 40hz and provides a good overall adjustment for subs when calibrating. I strive for 72.5db so I know where reference levels are, then depending on the movie/music, adjust the sub volume up or down to taste. Its always back to reference levels when I turn off my equipment. Here is a more complete list of correction factors.
When measuring using "slow" response and "C" weighting, the following approximate corrections are close enough for our purposes:
10Hz +20.5
12.5Hz +16.5
16Hz +11.5
20Hz +7.5
25Hz +5
31.5Hz +3
40Hz +2.5
50Hz +1.5
63Hz +1.5
80Hz +1.5
100Hz +2
125Hz +0.5
160Hz -0.5
200Hz -0.5
250Hz +0.5
315Hz -0.5
400Hz 0
500Hz -0.5
630Hz 0
800Hz 0
1KHz 0
1.25Khz 0
1.6KHz -0.5
2Khz -1.5
2.5Khz -1.5
3.15Khz -1.5
4KHz -2
5KHz -2
6.3KHz -2
8KHz -2
10Khz -1
12.5KHz +0.5
16KHz 0
20KHz +1
John
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Re: newbie questions on subwoofer level
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 280
local
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local
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 280 |
Wid, you are absolutely correct, as is Jakeman (John). I have misread his post as I am so accustomed to setting the sub around 2db lower on the meter. We are all in aggrement; the meter underestimates at low frequencies so the correction is +2.0dB for the sub for 40-100Hz. By the way, my Velodyne SMS-1 actually shows a flatter response when everything is set to 75dB without corrections.
John
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Re: newbie questions on subwoofer level
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853 |
Good stuff John. The SMS algorithm factors in SPL adjustments for that ecm5000 microphone so no other corrections are necessary when tweaking from the display. Like yourself I then go back to doublecheck with the SPL metre for a final adjustment since there is now less volatility on the metre. One thing to be mindful of with the SMS, it appears its mapping function is off slightly at frequencies less than 25hz. Depending on your unit it could be off by 1.5-2.5hz. So if you are seeing a peak at say 27hz it could be occurring at either side of 25 HZ. Its not uniform across all the SMS devices but you can easily tell on yours looking at the scope of the EP500 with its brickwall DSP filter. The steep drop in response occurs at 19-20hz. A year and half ago Velodyne asked me to beta test the latest firmware version and I pointed out this discrepancy but I suspect Velo decided it wasn't worth redoing the mapping function for such a small adjustment. It doesn't detract at all from its effectiveness and I wholeheartedly recommend it as the final tweak for anyone determined to tame room acoustics or employing multiple subs. 
John
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 Re: newbie questions on subwoofer level
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 72 |
Well, I'm glad John and John agree.  Underestimate, hot, cold... I feel retarded, but to educate me, sometimes one has to give me examples. I put in the HT Tune-up DVD, go to audio tests, start the individual channel tones, LF being first. I adjust my processor master volume to where the LF channel reads 75dB on meter. Then I leave the processor's master volume alone and go through C, RF, LS and RS and tweak their individual "volume adjust" settings in the processor until they each read 75dB on the meter. Then I do the sub, but I adjust its volume (I usually use the volume knob on the back of the sub) until the SPL meter reads 72.5dB. Did I get this right? Thanks, Rodney
Rodney
Denon AVR-3312ci
Mains: M22 v2
Center: VP150 v2
Surrounds: QS8s v2
Sub: HSU VTF-2 MK3
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