Mains=large: bass redirection for stereo material?
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On a typical AV receiver, setting mains=large, sub=on, and crossover=80Hz will (for Dolby 5.1 material) send ONLY the LFE track to the sub, whereas the mains get full range material. IOW there's no bass redirection from mains to sub -- the crossover is typically not used (for mains->sub redirection).
Likewise setting mains=small, sub=on will send LFE + redirected bass below crossover to the sub. Again this assumes discrete 5.1 material, say Dolby Digital 5.1.
But what about stereo material? If mains=large, sub=on, will any bass redirection happen from mains to sub?
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Re: Mains=large: bass redirection for stereo mater
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Various receivers have different settings for this. Look for a R/L+LFE setting or similar.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Mains=large: bass redirection for stereo material?
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Quote:
But what about stereo material? If mains=large, sub=on, will any bass redirection happen from mains to sub?
It depends entirely on the receiver/pre-processor. Some do this, some don't.
For instance, my current receiver doesn't do this. Speakers are either Small, with sound below the crossover sent to the sub. Or large and no sub output except for .1 info. There's no mixing or middle ground.
Other receivers like the Outlaw 990 and Emotiva MMC/DMC (and I'm sure many others) allow the user to direct some of the bass to the sub, even when speakers are set to 'Large'. The 990 in particular has very robust bass management that allows the user to do a whole bunch of things with the bass. 990 Digital Input Bass Management Chart
990 Analog Input Bass Management Chart
Last edited by PeterChenoweth; 05/31/07 04:36 PM.
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2 SVS Pci+ 20-39 Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1 M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office
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Re: Mains=large: bass redirection for stereo material?
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Joe, no redirection of the bass from the mains to the sub occurs in general in that situation. Most receivers have a setting(LFE+Mains, Both, Double Bass, etc.) which applies only when the mains are set "Large" and which would duplicate the lowest bass from the mains to the sub so that both the mains and the sub would be reproducing it(not a good idea in my view).
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Re: Mains=large: bass redirection for stereo material?
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Oh, so that's what Double Bass is. I didn't know what the setting meant, so I turned it off.
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Re: Mains=large: bass redirection for stereo material?
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Quote:
Joe, no redirection of the bass from the mains to the sub occurs in general in that situation. Most receivers have a setting(LFE+Mains, Both...which would duplicate the lowest bass from the mains to the sub...
OK, understood and thanks.
This raises several issues:
(1) In a 5.1 combination HT/music system, why would you EVER want mains=large? It works OK for DD 5.1 material, but every time you play a stereo CD, your subwoofer is totally bypassed.
"Larger" speakers like the M80 have good bass but not equal to an EP500/EP600.
Newer stereo CDs (say within the past 15 years) often have a lot of material below 80 Hz. If you have a robust subwoofer, having mains=large leaves it silent for stereo material.
(2) LFE+mains/both seems a possible solution, but you have the "bass doubling" problem. Also, when switching back to DD 5.1 sources, wouldn't the bass doubling problem get worse?
(3) Most popular "help" articles I've seen don't clearly explain the difference between bass management of 5.1 sources vs stereo sources and how mains=large vs mains=small affects this. IOW they typically explain mains=large vs. small for 5.1 material, but omit the different consequences of stereo material.
Any further comments?
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Re: Mains=large: bass redirection for stereo material?
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(1) It depends on the bass management of the AV receiver. There are others besides Outlaw (H/K for one) that let you operate in stereo with the subwoofer and the mains set to Large or Small (the double bass thing) with a selectable crossover setting. As to setting mains to Large with the subwoofer and DD 5.1, there are users who simply want tons and tons of bass, so-called "bass-heads." I know plenty of them. I'd agree that with other receivers that don't permit the above, then it would indeed leave the subwoofer silent. (2) It could, but for bass-heads, it isn't a "problem." (3) I've tried to explain this previously but other articles may omit it because it's technically complicated and the number of AV receivers and preamp/processors that enable this is in the minority. (And I might have omitted mention of it in some of my pieces because it's tricky to understand. . .) Incidentally, lots of naive listeners equate bloated, fat bass with "warmth" in a loudspeaker's tonal balance. And it sells in retail outlets' speaker demos. Regards,
Alan Lofft, Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)
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Re: Mains=large: bass redirection for stereo material?
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Alan, thanks.
My problem is this is typically poorly documented in the user's manual for various receivers. Many times I've read the section in various manuals on bass management, and thought "what does THAT mean?".
Sometimes the only solution is simply doing tests in various modes with various material and writing down what the subwoofer apparently does for each configuration.
However I think the generally "safest" receiver configuration for a 2.1 or 5.1 speaker system is all speakers=small, subwoofer=on, bass->sub only (not both mains+sub).
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Re: Mains=large: bass redirection for stereo mater
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But when you're listening to stereo, there is no sub channel. Therefore, the sub would be doing nothing. This isn't as straightforward today as it was a couple of days ago...
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Mains=large: bass redirection for stereo material?
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Quote:
My problem is this is typically poorly documented in the user's manual for various receivers. Many times I've read the section in various manuals on bass management, and thought "what does THAT mean?".
That's because engineers write the manuals instead of technical writers.
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