Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Question about M60s and exposed brick walls

Hey all! I'm hoping to buy myself a pair of M60 speakers for my new apartment. I want to upgrade to floorstanding speakers. Here's my challenge: It's a loft space with 13ft ceilings and all exposed brick walls. The spot I'd like to use them in is on either side of a gas fireplace. I haven't figured out how I'm going to connect the cables yet - I've been wondering about running them up to the ceiling beams on one side, not sure. I just want to be aware of the heat issues. And, well, I've been told that brick walls make speakers bright. Any advice on what to do about that? Should I consider look into dampening materials? Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks! ZG

Z,

If you post a picture, we may be able to help you better.

You could run the speaker cable along the bottom of the fireplace if it is elevated. You can purchase 105 degC-rated, 12AWG speaker cable at Home Depot for less than $1/foot.

Brick walls certainly are brighter but I wouldn't sweat it until you actually have a chance to listen to your set-up. I have a very bright room and I am happy with the sound.

I wouldn't put the M60s in the bright catagory anymore either, They are not as forward/bright as the M80 so a bright room will not be a problem.

Hi! Thanks for the responses. I've got two shots of the fireplace from the real estate listing. I'll try to figure out how to post them. Good to know about running cable around the bottom. I think that will work. And won't look so horrible. Aesthetic is key in this place! Many thanks! ZG

I think that home depot 12g cable is green tho

you can host pics at photobucket.com

When I bought it 7 months ago it was green. You can buy some fiber loom (it comes in various colours) to dress it up.

Thanks for the Photobucket tip. I thought I could upload them directly here. So, OK, this should work: http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee16/zoethebrave/

You can.

How'd you do that???

[ image ] tags.

Run them up the fireplace and across the mantle or across the threshold on the bottom. You can paint the cable to match the surface. Nice place by the way.

Gorgeous wood floors.

Hey all! Just an update that I FINALLY ordered my M60s today! I've been on the fence for a long while, but decided to see what these babies can do. I ordered them with the free upgrade to high gloss cherry. Should take about a month before they ship. I've waited this long, another four weeks won't kill me. ;-}

And, an update on the new loft. I hooked my stereo up in the spot I mentioned and it totally didn't work out there. Sounded good, but I wouldn't have been able to sit and listen given the wall situation right behind the fireplace. Kind of an odd space. So, the system is now in the living area (it's not a room, just a part of the loft). The speakers will be up against a brick wall and 9-foot windows. My present system sounds nice there. So, I'm sure the M60s will sounds great too!

One thing I truly love about the new space is the incredible sound. Because of all of the wood - floors and ceilings - it's almost like a cathedral or classical music hall. Very lovely resonance.

I promise a review of the space and the M60s when they arrive. I know I've got to break them in first though. Can't wait!

ZG

FWIW, I just saw some flat speaker cables being sold by Axiom. Might be worth a look.

Thanks! I actually ordered the bulk wire since I've moved the system away from the fireplace. Just not a good spot for quality listening. But, that flat wire would be great if/when I decide to have a home theatre set-up some day.

Hi ZG,

Welcome from another Canadian in NYC (on and off for the past 10 years). Nice space, and you seem to have enough irregular surfaces and the like that I don't think you need worry about the M60s sounding too forward or "in your face." The big space and high ceilings (I think I spotted some beams up there as well) should break up the reflections enough that you'll get a nicely uniform tonal balance.

You could always add a few area rugs later on if you wanted to increase absorbancy.

Regards,

Hi Alan!

I'd like to have a location tag similar to yours: Toronto/NYC/Cape Cod. But, alas, I'm really just in Jersey City, NJ. I work in Midtown though, so I call it NYC.

Thanks for the comments on the space. I have moved my stereo to another part of the loft where we have a huge wool rug. I think my stereo sounds wonderful in this space - and that's with my present Ohm C2 speakers. Can't wait to hear the M60s in here! I've already started to order a few new-to-me CDs that I've read about in posts here and on other various audio sites. Really an excuse to add to my collection!

Once the M60s arrive and I'm feeling happy with them I'd like to possibly start a thread (blog too, maybe) about the sounds of the music. I've been a music writer/critic for many years and I find that far too few writers talk about the physicality of playing music and hearing that in recordings. Of course you need a good system in order to hear Bill Evans press down on a piano key, or Billie Holiday exhale without painful a shot of sibilance, but it's all part of the connection I think all of us music lovers are looking for.

For example, one of my favorite new artists is Andrew Bird. His album (yes, I still call them that!) Mysterious Production of Eggs has several passages with him whistling. He emits an amazing sound that sometimes feels like he's playing another instrument, like a steel guitar, even. But playing the album on a great system reveals that it's a human instrument, with a warm and full timbre that is lost on a mediocre system or poor quality headphones.

Just thinking on screen here...

Best,

Zoë

They're here already!! Less than a week after ordering. Right out of the box, WOW!!!!! Amazing sounding, and the high gloss cherry is stunning. They are a tad bright, but I can tell they will mellow out a little in time. First listen: Coltrane's Blue Train. Incredible. I promise a more detailed review in time. I've only heard them on my Luxman L210 amp with my modded CD player. Tomorrow I'll swap in one of my Scott tube amps and listen to some vinyl on my Dual 1219.

My biggest question to myself is: What took you so long?

Zoë

The speakers won't mellow out, your perception of them will.

Cool! And, yes, as sirquack just mentionned, once your ears have ajusted, you will be in a better position to tweak, compare and report how much you enjoy your new speakers and life in general (they go together!).

Ha-ha, you're probably right. I'm a believe in tone controls since not all recordings are made equal, so I'm sure I'll do some tweaking on that end too. But I'm totally impressed. The last time I visited Stereo Exchange in Manhattan they played me $5K speakers on a $25K McIntosh tube system. In all honesty, I'm hearing that kind of detail here. No, I'm not an expert, but I know what I like. So far, these are high on the list. Thank goodness!! I waited almost two years to buy them. I won't be looking back!

Zoë

In my opinion I would not mess with tone controls as they will make well designed speakers sound worse, at least with Axioms. Of course, this just my opinion.

So will a lot of rooms. If it sounds better use em.

I only really play with tone controls if the system reveals a poor quality CD or passage. Sometimes even that can't save it. But, every now and then pulling down the treble helps.

So, tomorrow I will listen to tubes and vinyl. Can't wait to be blown away some more!

Zoë

So do a lot of recordings. Sometimes it is necessary to tweak in such a manner.

ZG, Enjoy your new speakers with or without tone control adjustments.

Hi Zoe,

Sorry, I don't know how to do the umlot. Anyway, you get a lot more space for way less money when you leave Manhattan.

Delighted you like the M60s and don't feel guilty about using tone controls when dreadful engineering or equalization on the original source material (LP or CD) requires it.

For example, I just listened to a CD of a wonderful New York cabaret singer who passed away from cancer some years ago. Anyway, the recording is SO sibilant (on all my speakers--M80s, M22s, old Mirage bipolars and good headphones) that a slight tweak of the treble control makes it listenable. I used about a 3-dB cut and it reduces the sibilance.

I do advise against using elaborate equalizers or built-in auto-EQ systems with good speakers like Axioms, as you may well degrade or totally mess up the tonal balance and linearity of the speakers.

Regards,

Eva Cassidy?

Hey all!

I've been listening to the M60s since Friday evening, and with every new recording I pop on, I'm blown away! I've made a mess of my collection by grabbing everything I think will sound amazing and piling it up in the living room. So far only one sounded horrible - which is one of my favorite records too: Maria McKee's You Gotta Sin to Get Saved. I haven't tried it on vinyl yet though, which I have. But the CD sounded horrible. Even tone controls couldn't help it. We'll see how the vinyl sounds today.

A friend of mine recommended my entire system - including the M60s. I've basically mimicked his gear (plus some additions and tweaks), and by far it's the best sounding system I've owned. He's about 25 years older than me, so I guess he knows what he's talking about! So, thanks to Larry!

The M60s really make me see/hear just how wonderful sounding my amps are. The Luxman L210 is a sleeper that audiofools (yes, fools like me!) in Europe seem to love and mod like mad. I've got two of them, one for the TV. They come up on eBay from time to time and never cost more than $200. The L210 was a high end amp back when it was released. It stands the test of time. I used to have a much more expensive Adcom GFA 555 II and GFP 565 preamp. The Luxman is miles ahead of the Adcoms on all levels.

My tube amp is a Scott 222C. I also have a Scott LK-72 that was heavily modded. The 222C is just amazing! Again, it compares to a McIntosh that I heard that was in the $6K range for just the power amp. The 222C cost me $400 shipped, cleaned up and new tubes. The price to sound ratio on that is insanely amazing.

Well, Bill Evans is spinning right now. Sounds like he's playing in my loft!

Zoë

Hey Alan,

If you're on a Mac, the umlaut can be put over vowels with this command: option + U, then the vowel. Älän Löfft. Have no clue how it's done on a PC though.

Chëërs!

Zoë

with the PC, it's like alt-225 (or some other three digits) on the numeric pad. Quite ïntüïtïvë, wouldn't you say?

>>I've made a mess of my collection by grabbing everything I think will sound amazing and piling it up in the living room.

This is surprisingly common. Glad you're enjoying the new speakers !

I love them so much that I turn the stereo on at 8:00 a.m. and don't turn it off again until after midnight. If only had time to listen to everything I own! I'd been home 24/7 for the next ten years. ;-} Too bad I'm still 20-30 years from retirement. ;-p

Cool! The pleasure does not dimish with time and that's saying something about a sound system! I am more a 5:00-21:00 person, but I guess it is the number of hours that matters and not the exact schedule!

Hi Zoe,

Was on a Mac years ago but not now. Much amused by my name with all the umlots. I wonder how you'd pronounce that?

By the way, on the amplifier front, Axiom's chief electronics engineer, "Uncle Tom" Cumberland, designed amplifiers for Luxman and Macintosh (tube and solid-state), so that means you're just going to have to get Axiom's new A1400-8 digital amplifier, since Uncle Tom designed it!

I'm delighted that you're enjoying the M60s.

Regards,

I'm guessing that "Uncle Tom" does not carry the same meaning in Canada as the US.

Hey Mark,

I just got back to this thread. No, it's not Eva Cassidy, although she's great, too.

I just went and checked. The singer is Nancy LaMott. I have two or three of her CDs. If you like Eva Cassidy, I think you'll like Nancy LaMott.

The recording quality on her CDs is variable. I think there is one I resisted getting ("Live at Tavern on the Green") because her mike is so sibilant that I knew no amount of tone control manipulation or EQ could correct it.

Regards,

My first amp (22 years ago) was a 28Wpc Luxman (can't remember the model number) and I really, really liked it! Unfortunately, some unwelcomed guests at my appartment (i.e. thieves) departed with it. That was when, for some reason, Luxman became very hard to obtain (at least in Montreal) and I had to settle for some Yamaha receiver (had to match the insurance claims! ). It wasn't THAT bad, but I really missed my Luxman...

This means I have now closed the loop with Uncle Tom!

Oops. Typical of a Canadian to blunder into that one, and on Martin Luther King Day. It wasn't meant in that context.

Yes, Luxman had some really lovely gear, including an integrated turntable that I always admired. I almost picked up a used one a few years ago because it was just so pretty, although I almost never play vinyl anymore.

Indeed, you have closed the circle with Tom Cumberland!

Can we call him Tommy Boy?

Careful! He may have planted a way to disrupt your amp from a distance!

Anything in the works for a two channel amp?

Älän would sound more like Elen in German.

The A1400-8 digital amplifier looks lovely, but is about $3.5K more than my humble Luxman set-up. But I do play the lottery! ;-}

Listening to Blue Rodeo's Five Day in July CD using my Scott amp. Sounded a bit bright so I turned the treble down a tad. My partner commented that it sounds as good as it does seeing them live - which we did in November in NYC. Impressive how how realistic these speakers sound.

Zoë

I'd love to listen to them earlier, but I fear the downstairs neighbors would cause problems for us if I did. I hate how they yell at the TV during football games, but I'll just drowned them out with my M60s going forward.

No worries, Alan. Just a little odd to see, that's all.

Depends on the language, but in German, Älän Löfft would sound like Ellen Lufft. There's no English sound for ö, actually. To make it, you put your tongue about halfway between the relaxed position and where it would be if you were saying "eeee", then loosely shape your lips as if you are about to whistle. If you then say "uhhhhhhhhhh", you should have a close approximation of the sound.

Peter, I think we need a demonstration video. Please.

No video, but here's an audio sample of how to say "Österreich" in German. (Österreich = Austria. Yes, the page is missing the umlaut.)

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?ggaust09.wav=Osterreich

Hey all, at long last I uploaded the pix of my brand new High Gloss Cherry M60 v2 tower speakers. I promise a longer review down the line, but for now I can say that I'm approaching the 30 day mark and I have no plans on returning them at all. In a word: Incredible!

Enjoy! http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee16/zoethebrave/

Zoë

Wow! Those look nice. Thanks for the pics, Zoe.

Nice pictures, Zoë the Brave.

Hey all,

One more note, I just added the Michaura M55 & M66 speakers I got for a seriously excellent deal. I had no clue that they would turn out to have the exact same High Gloss Cherry finish as the M60s. They looked similar, but I didn't really give it much thought. Well, as you'll see in that album they look almost identical. Amazing! They are not as wonderful as the M60s, but they are fantastic for the price. Thanks for looking!

Zoë

Thanks guys! Hope it helps someone to decide what they want. I'd been wanting to order for a while, but the free offer of High Gloss Cherry really made me pick up the phone and give Brent my credit card number. They are really beautiful! I liked the look of the Burled Walnut, but thought it looked too much like what you see in luxury cars. Believe me, I'm not a car lover or a luxury car person at all. ("Do they have that finish on bicycles?" I *might* ask. LOL!) Oh, I should also note that I am not using the grilles. I left the grilles on with my Ohm speakers, but the M60s really look amazing without them.

Zoë

It didn't help me make my decision, but it did help to hold me over temporarily while I wait for my own HG Cherry system to arrive... Truly beautiful. Can't wait to get my own. Thanks for posting.

Yes, they are beautiful! I always take pictures of my packages when they arrive. But I also thought I'd take some close-ups to show how lovely the High Gloss Cherry is in real life. Hopefully the pix give some sense of that.

You'll love yours when they arrive!

Zoë

Gotta love the high gloss cherry, nice pics.