Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Quick Question (I hope) about lossless & gear

I have two questions. I was hoping someone could help or direct me to an article or forum that could help. Thanks in advance.

I'm slowly upgrading my equipment at home. I just grabbed a used PS3 but realize it won't decode the HD Audio codecs. My question is if I grab a Toshiba HDA20 or A35, do I still need an AV receiver that has HDMI 1.3?

Or, since the HD DVD player is supposed to decode those signals, will a plain old toslink optical cable from DVD to an older receiver, like the Denon 3805 (I'm hoping to grab a used one locally at what I think is a great price) successfully transmit the lossless sound?

The second question is more general, and may be best answered by reference to an online article. What are the advantages or drawbacks of routing video signals through an AV receiver, rather than directly to the television?

Thanks again.

In answer to your second question, The only real advantage is if you have multiple sources, to switch between them. Or if you have sources with only composite and you want to upconvert those to HDMI or Component video.

Otherwise its just more crap in the signal chain.

The PS3 does decode HD Audio. You have to connect to a receiver that will support PCM through HDMI. The same goes with the Toshiba HD DVD players.
I use my Denon 4806 that I believe only has HDMI 1.1 but supports PCM through HDMI. So I get the HD sound formats.

I forgot to add that toslink will not transfer the HD sound formats, someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the bandwith is to large in the HD formats to be passed through optical.

You'll need analog outputs if the HDMI connection can't be used. I think that's the only other way to get the HD sound formats.

Hi Haoleb, thanks for response.

My only sources will be HD cable box (HDMI), PS3 (Component or HDMI), and DVD (also Component or HDMI). I believe there are enough HDMI or component inputs on my television to accomodate those.

Given those facts, and your response, would you say I shouldn't need to run video through the receiver?

Hi Homedad, thanks for response.

I should have said that the PS3 won't decode ALL of the HD Audio codecs...that is actually what I've heard (and might be closer to true?).

To paraphrase, to successfully listen to the lossless sound recordings, I would need to have a receiver that supported PCM (thanks, I just learned very briefly what pulse code modulation is). The Denon 3805 seems to, as specs quote PCM-1804, though more googling is required to understand. Anyway, once I get a receiver that supports PCM, I would need to make sure I have a cable that will transmit the large digital signal. You've said optical won't, so I suppose that is one big reason I would run an HDMI cable to the receiver, not necessarily to benefit video, but b/c it will carry all the audio info.

Let me know if I misinterpreted. If not, thanks very much!

Many of the HD players and I believe the PS3 is included won't decode lossless DTS. But play it in another manner that is beyond my expertise to describe. Although future updates may fix this.


That is correct, unless your receiver has better upscaling such as the Reon video processor that some of the new Onkyo's have it makes more sense as Haoleb stated to go video to video with as few connections as possible. The only reason I run my HDMI through my receiver from my PS3 and Toshiba HD player is for the lossless sound, my DirecTv box goes directly to the TV with HDMI for video and I use a toslink to my receiver for audio.

Hi Perc. I'll give you my 2 cents. If I'm wrong then I hope somebody will correct me.

I'll start with your video connections. Unless you are looking to take advantage of any upscaling capabilities then a direct connection to your TV will ensure optimum video quality for your hardware. Having said that, running HDMI from your cable box to your receiver would probably be ok since the broadcasts are not always top notch (as compared to HD DVD, etc.) so any loss in video quality would be negligible. I would also recommend calibrating your TV inputs by way of a calibration disc (DVE or Avia). I have used DVE and it made a huge improvement.

Your questions about lossless audio are more difficult to answer and may involve you doing some research on your own and I will try to point you in the right direction. Let me also add that I am currently researching the newer technologies because I will be upgrading my receiver in the near future.

A toslink cable is incapable of transmitting a lossless audio signal. From what I've read, the jury is still out on the necessity of HDMI 1.3 Currently Blu Ray owners are able to access the lossless audio via PCM but that may change once Blu Ray starts utilizing such features as PIP. At this point I believe the player will decode the audio and pass it to the receiver so HDMI 1.3 and the ability to decode the lossless audio would be a moot point on the receiver.

The same goes for HD DVD. Yes receivers are able to decode the lossless audio codecs (True HD, DTS Master) but the lossless audio isn't accessible unless the HD DVD is authored as basic. Most HD DVDs are authored as advanced. This is what provides things as PIP (picture in picture), fancy directory commentaries and fancy menus to name a few.

Here are a couple of interesting reads. I encourage you to read and come to your own conclusion.

<a href="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789994" target="_blank"> <b>Why You Don't Need HDMI 1.3</b></a>

<a href="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=867502&page=1&pp=30" target="_blank"> <b> HDMI 1.1 X 1.3 for new HD AUdio Formats</b></a>

Sorry, here are functional links.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789994

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=867502&page=1&pp=30