Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Considering Upgrade - please help

I have had my Epic Grand Master system now for about six months and am tempted to upgrade the M22s to M60s, upgrade the VP100 to a VP150 and to replace the sub with an SVS or HSU. And its all your fault!

While I have enjoyed my current speaker setup (which is powered by a Yamaha RX-V625), I was not blown away with it like I expected. I had listened to some JM Labs speakers in a controlled environment and when I found the Axiom speakers being compared to them for half the price, I bit. I can't put my finger on my current dissatisfaction (dissatisfaction is too strong a word) but, it could be more room related, or receiver related than speaker related.

I'm also considering upgrading the Yamaha because Sushi does a great job of promoting the Pio Elite line and I live in Atlanta where I can get it from a guy for a good price.

If I do decide to upgrade, is it true that I will get 75% of the purchase value of what I return applied to the new speakers? What is the ballpark cost of my shipping 2M22's, a VP100 and a sub?

Any others out there that went through this upgrade process? Were you impressed with the difference?

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is only 25%....better off with Audiogon if that's the case. If it's 75%, I'm that much more likely to do the same with M22 to M60.

You can sell your M22's on audiogon for $320 pretty easy. I did mine.

I've done exactly what you have...M22's turned into M60's, I have a Hsu VTF-2, and I have the VP150.

All I can say is GO FOR IT!

smeagle,

Could you try (again) to describe the sonic aspects of your current system that you are not entirely satisfied?

Ok, I'll give it a shot... and again let me state that I am very happy with my speakers, just not as blown away as I was expecting. Here are some things that bother me about the sonic aspects of my system in order of priority/annoyance.

1. buzzy hiss from M22s that requires me to turn down treble when we are watching movies. Some CDs its not noticeable like jazz or rock, but very noticeable on classical and movies (in surround).
2a. vocals from the likes of Norah Jones or Amy Lee tend toward shrill at times
2b. sound is not as "big" as I was hoping. I love the clarity and crispness, but it seems like they are just not as "full" as I was expecting. This is true in both 2 channel and surround.
2c. bass is not as distinct (this could be related to 2b) or precise as I would like to think it could sound.
3. fan and drive noise from x-box which is what I use for CDs and DVDs.


My den is about 14' x 23' and I have my system on the long wall, so my listening position is about 10 feet away from speakers.

Does that help? I really appreciate your feedback.

Hi
Something is wrong with your M22s or upstream from your speakers. You should not be hearing any buzzing or hissing.

Could be a voice coil problem if it's the speakers. Might also be a problem with your source, amplifier or processor. You may want to try to localize the problem. Try swapping another pair of decent speakers for the M22s and see if that helps. If not, the problem is probably not with your M22s.

Could you describe the rest of your system?

smeagle,

First of all, I assume that you have correctly calibrated the channel levels/delays and the subwoofer, using an SPL meter (if not... well, I have no comments. ).

1. Yes, something is clearly wrong here. Does it "hiss" only in the surround mode? When you switch the receiver into the Stereo or Direct mode, does it subside? How about the Dolby Digital mode vs. matrix surround modes such as DPL II? Also, does it still "hiss" when the CD/DVD playback is stopped? How about when you switch off the X-Box altogether (and with various listening modes on the receiver)?

2a. This could be the character of the M22/VP100, if it isn't grossly bad and it depends on CDs. What is the floor material of the room? Do you have flat, hard surfaces in the room (e.g. concrete walls, big glass windows)?

2b. Again, this could be inherent to the M22/VP100. What's the distance between the M22's? How much are they "toed in"? How far are the M22's and VP100 placed from the walls?

2c. What is your subwoofer crossover frequency on the receiver? Is the crossover circuit on the EP175 correctly defeated? Have you tried both phase-switch positions on the EP175? Are all speakers set to "small"? Have you tried several different locations for the sub?

Enough questions for now...

Thanks all for helping me through this.

Zarak, I have a Yamaha RX-V620 receiver, and an x-box for DVD, CD, and gaming.

Sushi, yes I've calibrated w/ SPL meter. M22s are 25" away from wall, 7 ft apart and 11 ft from listening area. They, and the VP100 are toed in, pointing directly to the listening position. The VP100 is above TV in a cabinet.

I thought I had gone through a significant number of scenarios to try and isolate the buzzy hiss several months ago, but when I went back and listened again, I'm not sure if I'm getting it through the tuner or VCR. The sound floors on each of these is more audible and I now think that is what I am hearing instead of the hiss. I am definitely getting it through the x-box in all listening modes. But I was curious why the hiss doesn't occur in the VP100, only the M22s.

That said, I just tried another experiment and found that if I hook up my old yamaha cd player (circa 1985), I get no hiss when the "effect" is off. That led me to learn that I could select analog when I am hooked to the x-box and get no hiss as long as I'm not doing any sound effects.

I tried the sub in several places and think it is in the best place I could find (in front b/w M22 and tv cabinet). I've tried both phase positions, speakers are set to small and the crossover frequency on the sub is at the end of the dial at 150hz.

My room is carpeted, large upholstered furniture, and mostly wood paneling. There is a single french door on one end and a moderate sized window on either end of the listening wall.

Man this is a lot of work... I really appreciate your taking the time to help me out.

Hmm...

According to your descriptions, I agree that the noise floor of your Yamaha RX-V625 seems rather high. However, it also seems that you need to do more experiments to pinpoint the noise source in various listening scenarios, before you conclude that a receiver upgrade gives you a definitive benefit. Just FYI, I connect my X-Box to the 45TX receiver through Microsoft's own digital 5.1/component video dongle, and I don't get an audible noise floor (of course, if I put my ears directly to the front tweeter, I do hear some hiss, but it is utterly silent from the listening position).

With regard to the occasional vocal sibilance, I suggest you play around with the speaker toe-in -- especially try decreasing the toe-in so that the L/R tweeter axis cross way behind you. Pay attention to both sibilance and imaging/soundstage.