Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M3s with Wharfedale.....a musical blend

After a long, long wait of 4 years, I finally decided to purchase the Wharfedale SW-150 sub to supplement my M3s. The factors (or rather, lack of choices) that influenced my purchase were availability and pricing in India.

Firstly, my sincere thanks to JohnK for patiently answering all my queries and for his invaluable, pragmatic advice and keeping me rooted in my decision-making process.

I had a chance to compare 3 subwoofers in the demo room, all completely different and seemingly incomparable. But for the benefit of those of you, I thought I should mention my views especially since Wharfedale subwoofers seem to be in limited supply in the US and Canada. A side by side limited comparison of the following were done:

Polk Audio PSW 12 - US $400 - 12 inch driver-100W - Front firing port
Wharfedale SW 150 - US $400 - 10 inch driver - 150W - Down firing port
Paradigm PDR 8 - US $450 - 8 inch driver - 100W - Rear firing port

My tastes in music are eclectic. The dealer gave me the freedom to switch between the 3 subs at my own leisure. The main speakers used initially were a pair of Athena LS 100 but were later changed at my insistence to the Paradigm Cinema 70 satellites as the LS-100s had good bass levels themselves. I wanted to hear the subs handle most of the bass themselves to judge their abilities. The receiver used was the Yamaha RXV-361.

My first choice was the “Brothers in Arms” album from Dire Straits. All albums of Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler are mastered very well. The first 20 seconds of “So Far Away” feature just the bass and lead guitar. The Polk managed to keep up while the Wharfedale and the Paradigm played effortlessly. The SW blended perfectly rendering the music without any difference in tonality. The low end of the bass guitar sounded itself out into the soundstage so much that my wife couldn’t help noticing the smile on my face. The PDR was anyway a part of this system and sounded perfect in tandem equivalent to the SW150 though being a smaller sub.

I popped in Norah Jones’ “Don’t know why” next. This track has oodles of bass and pump organ in it. The PSW12 sounded a bit bloated. The SW150 propelled the bass beautifully yet keeping the mellow nature of the song intact. Again, the PDR8 sounded just the same as the SW150 at lower volumes.

The acid test (according to me) for the subs was Bon Jovi’s “Keep the faith”. The first half minute has high amplitude of the bass guitar playing at a stretch. The polk sounded horrible with this stretch. The driver never seemed to recover from one frequency to move on to the next. There was significant port noise and a poor reproduction of soundstage. The SW150 played ever so well with accurate, tight bass. This song highlighted how good the SW is for music. It blended with the mains accurately after setting the volume level. The PDR8 struggled just a bit at higher volumes but again, I was surprised at how good Paradigm makes even their little subs. A ported sub would have to represent these frequencies without delay. The SW and the PDR were great.

I’m certain that at this point many of you might be thinking that I could have gone for the Paradigm PDR 10. Much has been written about its abilities yet maintaining its value-for-money feat. But the PDR 10 costs about $570 here and I felt that the Wharfedale was sufficient for my needs, especially as I am a music lover.

I moved onto the movie effects next and tried “The Day after tomorrow” with the scene where the wave crashes into Manhattan. The polk by this time was almost out of my choice list and this scene proved it. The polk rumbled on with some more port noise at a few instances and loss of depth. The SW150 was again accurate and portrayed a good “roar” across the soundstage. But the effect was mellow. I might have expected more from a 10 inch 150W sub. There wasn’t anything missing except that it could have been more forceful. On the other hand, the PDR8 made it quite exciting at low volumes and packed a decent punch for its size.

The scene that clinched my choice for the Wharfedale was from “Pearl Harbor”. The lengthy portrayal of the Japanese fighter planes flying across the US soil at low altitude to reach Pearl Harbor had plenty of bass in it. The SW150’s woofer was effortlessly pounding out bass and so much of it. This was as “visceral” as I could have asked for. The planes felt real on a huge soundstage and the bass moved across the room in a sweep. This scene is seemed difficult because there are many planes flying across. The SW just put it all out there with authority for us to hear. Our chairs were vibrating and the glass of water on the table began moving. I never knew so much bass existed in this film. It was almost as if this movie flattered the SW.

I must add here that the PDR8 was keeping up almost as well as the wharfedale. It too gave an accurate representation of the planes flying across with so much bass from such a dinky little sub even though a touch of strain was evident.

Anyway, our choice was made now and we ordered the SW150 which took about 2 months to arrive in stock.
This was around July 2007. It was all excitement on the day the dealer called and asked us to pick up the sub.

Having brought it home and taking out the 13 kilo lump, I placed it in between the M3s and hooked up the sub to the preout of the stereo amplifier (50Wx2). I set the crossover to 75 Hz and volume to the 12.00 position. I do not have a high pass crossover for my M3s. I plan to assemble one soon or just get the Harrison FMods.

A point of note is that I have brick walls and marble flooring in my apartment. There are only thin curtains on one window no carpets anywhere in the house. So my room gain would be high.

I used my Thinkpad notebook as the source and first played the unplugged version of Hotel California. The sub rendered the bongos so well. The bass was very tight, went low and clean, without any port noise and slammed hard enough for my windows and wall paintings to rattle and move the spoon stand on the table in the dining room.

The best part was that it blended so well with the M3s as if they were made as a unit. Hardly any tonal or timbre difference and the sub just vanished. My neighbours came knocking and stayed for the song with their eyes wide open the whole time.

After the neighbours left, my wife left me alone with my new acquisition. I popped in a test CD and ran the test frequencies. The sub was able to play just enough sound down to 29 Hz keeping the 12.00 position on the volume knob. From 32 Hz onwards, there was an audible increase in the decibel levels with good clarity. This is in tune (pun intended) with what the manual and the website claim. I’ve seen that most Canadian and American made subs (HSU, SVS, Paradigm etc) claim to get down to 25-27 Hz out of their 10 inch subs although I haven’t heard any myself. So I’m not the best judge of what a good in-room LFE is.

I moved on to Norah Jones’ “Don’t Know Why”. The unit rendered this song beautifully. There was a whole new extension of the soundstage which wasn’t there with the M3s before. Norah’s voice and breath were filled in by the sub and. I unplugged the sub and played the song again. The M3s hold their stance so well that it is unfair to ask so much out of the little wonders. The sub supplemented the M3s with the missing LFE. Again, the emphasis I place is on the sub’s ability to blend in musically without a hint of difference in tonality. It vanishes into the soundstage neither muddling nor overstating itself.

Dire Straits’ “Private Investigations” sounded awesome. Forgive my usage of the word “awesome”. I find it too American specific (no offence to anyone) but it was indeed awesome. The sub thunders each time and goes completely quiet an instant later. Music is what this sub is all about. There was not a hint of port noise even when I replayed this song at ear splitting volume. The piano and guitars were presented clearly by the system.

A prolonged exposure to high wattage and excursions came up a week later on my daughter’s birthday. The kids insisted on loud, raucous trance, Indian and dance remixes. Right from Kylie Minogue’s “Can’t get you out of my head” to Dire Strait’s “Walk to life” to Indian instrumentals which featured instruments like the santoor, tabla, lehra and the likes. The unit played so well along with copious amounts of bass shaking the windows and pounding on people’s chests. The sub’s volume level was set at about 75% and it maintained its composure for 3 hrs at a stretch. The sub amp’s heat sink had a full time job and was too hot to touch at the end of the party. A few of the parents complained of too much chest pounding and asked me how the M3s played so much bass. Another testament to the sub’s ability to blend in and disappear.

The following week, we watched Cars a second time. We had seen the movie earlier when we had only the M3s. The races were a treat on the M3s and I was even then impressed. But I had no idea of the various low frequencies of the engine sounds present on the disc till I saw it again with the sub this time. Fantastic rendition of each and every different sound from the engines. The sub was able to segregate them so well and present them vividly enough.

Hoping for something better, I watched Transformers on it. Loads of low metallic frequencies and thuds of the autobots’ feet. While the bass was excellent again, it was not as firm and aggressive as it should have been. The recording was excellent and the bass too was but somewhere it did not slam enough. It was again mellow. Not earth shaking at all. I thought this could have been due to the sub’s placement but will not know till I experiment with the placement.

We then watched Star Wars – The Phantom Menace. The pod races have so much low end grunt which sounded great. No jarring or no port noise. Just good, clean, tight bass everywhere. Again, the slam was not as great as I might have expected.

Jack Snyder’s 300 too had the same effect. Excellent and expansive bass on the fight scenes, a good depth on the marches coming nothing out of place, Just tight bass but slightly less authority on the final slams.

The DVD of Metallica’s S&M with the San Franciso orchestra was fantastic. The M3s sang their hearts out and the sub romped home the instruments. The concert had tubas, trombones, horns, violins, violas for the bass section. The sub held his stance for the entire hour. No overplay on any of the bass instruments. Just a clean, neutral rendition with the M3s and keeping up with them on every crescendo and turning completely quiet an instant later. I could go into the details song by song but I feel I’ve ranted long enough.

I admire this sub for its musical abilities. I may not have calibrated it correctly in my room for movies but it feels a tad inadequate for movie effects. Its hard to point out any shortcomings though I might have expected just a bit more bass for its size. I will be doing some subwoofer crawls soon and will update this message in case of any new development.

The Wharfedale matches the M3s very well. It is a neutral sounding, clean, musical sub which brings home the music and is more than adequate for home theatre as well. I would recommend it to anyone with a preference for music. I however do understand that those in the US or Canada can always pick up a Paradigm PDR-10 or any of the HSU or SVS subs. But hey, I’ve put together an exclusive unit that has an Indian amplifier, Canadian Speakers and a British subwoofer which all work so well together and manage to rumble the building.

I may have missed out many aspects in this first review of mine. Advice, criticism and questions are most welcome.

P.S: I've been trying to insert photos into this message with little success. I keep getting an icon but no display. Will update as soon as I find out how.

That’s quite a review…. Thanks for sharing.

I don’t suppose they had the 300 there? I’ve been wanting one to go with my Opus 2’s for about a year now.

Hi Shankar,

Great review.

I was in Hyderabad this last April and I really miss the Hyderabadi biryani .

One of the things you may want to try to achieve greater tightness is to set the crossover on the sub to the same level as the crossover on your Yammi.

What a nice review, glad to see you online.

Great review, aquashankar! I have read many good things about Wharfedale subs. Glad you found something that blends so well with your M3s.

Shankar, yes it has been a long wait for you, but as I mentioned in our last discussion, it's great that you were able to find what you needed. Delighted to hear how you're enjoying your music even more now. Also it's great to hear how your neighbors reacted; over here in many cases they'd be knocking on the door, but also screaming to turn it down. Enjoy, my friend.

I think Shankar's biggest problem over there is overcoming the traffic noise. His next door neighbors probably wouldn't hear his speakers over that racket .

mdrew: The SW300 is never kept in stock as for some reason it costs about USD $1100 in India. I've not understood the huge difference in prices. It is brought in only on order.

I did have a listen to the Opus 2’s in the demo room and they were really good. They play down to 33Hz which equals my M3s and SW150 combined. Maybe what you need is the Adire Shiva to be able to play below 33Hz down to 16Hz. I think the SW300 plays only down to 25Hz. That's what the dealer said.

Mojo: Thank you for the comments. Yes, one of the best things about living in Hyderabad is the exotic variety of biryanis. You don’t get the same taste anywhere else in the world.

And I’m fortunate to stay away from the main roads. Hardly any traffic noise in my area.

I don’t own a Yammi receiver. It was the dealer’s receiver. I have a basic 50Wx2 custom made amplifier without external adjustable crossovers.

JohnK: I take the neighbours’ permission during parties or else even they would complain. They came in the first time only as it was a new purchase. I wouldn’t dare play loud everytime. But overall, they are more accommodating.

I am enjoying myself to the hilt. Right from Chopin and Bach to Metallica and Judas Priest. The system really spews venom on heavy metal. I always found the M3s too bright for metal but with the sub filling in, it is great. Rammstein's CDs are well recorded and the sub grinds its way out on the rhythm guitar chords without distorting.

M3s too bright for metal? You should hear the M22s or M80s, it's like a concert - ears bleeding from all the over blown treble

jake: sometimes ignorance is bliss. I do not know what metal sounds like on the M22s or the M80s. but they certainly sound bright on the M3s. Brighter than most other speakers. perhaps due to the echoing in my hall on account of all the marble and concrete.

The S&M DVD felt right "in my face".

I have found some good remasters of metal cds I have and they are not bright and sound terrific.

Care to list a few? Much of my metal years was in cassette form and there are a few I'd reinvest in if I thought the sound quality was there.

I haven't been playing them much as the rest of the family doesn't like them. I will dig them out and let you know.

Please list some of the CDs you have in mind. Even my collection is mostly on tapes and I'm wondering if I should rip them all into mp3s once and for all. But the quality would never be as good as a well mastered CD. Do let us know.

What's everyone's take on metal and I will try my best to find it if I have it or something similar.

The only thing I have out at the momment isn't metal per se, but hard rock, Van Halen's first and second albums have been remastered and sound quite good compared to the originals. VH is about as metal as my family allows me to play.

My son is into Lincoln Park and their CDs are pretty well recorded.

Neener-Neener! Jason's showing his age!

I think you mean Linkin Park

My metal tastes vary as does my taste in all music. About the only thing I can't do is the really serious death metal or thrash metal where the guitar notes are played so fast that the song notes themselves are indistinguishable. Not a big fan of the guttural voice thing either. OK as an effect in a song but a whole song sung like that is just annoying.

Most of my cassettes when I was younger were also in the 'hard rock' genre as playing anything harder also cause family issues.

Loved early hard rock Van Halen, AC/DC, Mettalica, Ozzy, Bon Jovi before the hair cut.

Alternative Metal (for lack of a better term) Rammstien, Alice in Chains, Monster Magnet. some Jane's Addiction, Soundgarden

I will admit to being a Glam Metal fan, Poison, Cinderella, Motley Crue, Pantera, Slaughter. Kiss, Destroyer was my first ever LP.

Classic Metal, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Queensryche

A bit newer but I liked the Nu-Metal scene for a while. I don't mind a bit of screaming vocals if it's mixed in with complex instrumentation. Linkin Park, some Korn, Limp Bizkit, some System of a Down. I'm a big Billy Talent fan but I'm not sure he fits here.

Again newer but I like some of the more innovative Industrial or Techno. NiN, Tool. Hell, even some of Marilyn Manson's music intrigues me, as long as I don't have to look at him, her....it.

Best of all! My music of youth is one of the only genres that has never died. I see more kids with black, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC & Pink Floyd shirts on now, than I did when those bands were at their prime.

Also, heavy metal lives still in new bands I now enjoy like Three Days Grace, Seether, and if I dare say it, Nickelback is keeping stadium rock alive (when they are not stuck in commercial radio mode.)

OK long rant of memories there. I can't think of many more obscure bands I listened too. Plus I'm afraid Bren will dig up pictures of them if I do. heh heh

One that's not quite so popular, but worth checking out is Dust for Life. Unfortunately, their first album is slightly better than their second, but fortunately, that's the album you're likely to find commercially!

That's about the only metal I have that other people haven't heard of; I have all of the Metallica albums (Master of Puppets remaster is excellent, but I don't have that one), many Megadeth (Risk sucked, and I don't really care how badly Rust in Peace is mastered), and your usual assortment of NIN and Tool. Alice in Chains is a must have, and their later stuff is pretty well mastered.

I'm into new Alt Rock (hard) nowadays. I posted this group before, but it went over like a lead balloon... Is Sick Puppies. They did a great job at the studio, and their music is pretty good. http://www.amazon.com/Dressed-Up-Life-Si...94452414&sr=1-1

my metal tastes have changed so much over the years. I loved Iron Maiden initially but can't stand the same albums now.

Metallica has always been a favourite of mine. I have almost all their albums and they are well mastered. I do have all their albums in the mp3 format recorded at 192 kbps which is acceptable but not the best.

due respect has to be given to "pioneers" such as Joe Satriani who really brought rock music onto the scene. I find Satriani to be very versatile and his CDs well mastered again.

My first favourites were Judas Priest although many of my friends call them "nursery rhyme metal" music. I have their “Metal Works” CD which sounds bright on the M3.

Somewhere around early 1990's came the suicide songs of maiden, priest, black sabbath etc.

Thrash metal isn't my taste. Maybe I'm just growing old but I can't stand them.

Rammstein's music amuses me. they are good but lack the class of a Floyd or Metallica.

Slayer and DIO too impressed me for a while but faded away. Dio’s “Dream Evil” and “Sunset Superman” made the charts and that was it.

Cinderella captured my attention with their one album Night Songs.

Bon Jovi weaves good themes into their lyrics. Perhaps one of the few “down to earth” bands.

I’ve been completely out of touch with the new age bands. I’ll borrow some suggestions from Murph and try the new ones. Thanks!

Actually I was showing my sleep deprivation. I was the one who owned the first Linkin Park cd in the house.

Bon Jovi's latest albums are all pretty good. Anything back in 'the day' still sound bad and I haven't seen any remasters yet. I did notice Pink Floyd re-released the wall recently and it says it has been remastered.

Sounds like we are all on the same page for the most part.

Neener-Neener! Jason's showing his age sleep deprivation!


Nah.


It's really not as funny!

In my state it is still funny.