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#182096 - 11/05/07 11:16 PM Re: EP400s : The Little Subwoofer That Could [Re: JohnK]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
But we are talking about the VP150 TWWWT, does that still apply?
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#182098 - 11/05/07 11:21 PM Re: EP400s : The Little Subwoofer That Could [Re: jakewash]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Right, exactly. Does it, John? Used as mains, those would be tremendous frankenspeakers. Especially if they were stacked in a VP300 configuration \:\) .

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#182102 - 11/05/07 11:27 PM Re: EP400s : The Little Subwoofer That Could [Re: Mojo]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Jason and Mo, it's unclear whether the same considerations D'Apolitto used in his design apply equally to a TMMMT, but Alan's enthusiastic view indicates that it would, at least to some degree.

The comments in the November S&V magazine review relating to the horizontal dispersion of the VP150 can also be noted.
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#182106 - 11/05/07 11:53 PM Re: EP400s : The Little Subwoofer That Could [Re: JohnK]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I guess it would be not much different than the M82 in that the M22s blended very well to the M60s even though it was a TMMTMWW (going top down)design. The Tweeter in the middle did very little to change the sound.
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#182134 - 11/06/07 10:56 AM Re: EP400s : The Little Subwoofer That Could [Re: JohnK]
Hutzal Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
I have found, when comparing the VP150 to an M2 centre, that the VP150 does not have the spaciousness of the M2. I am guessing it is because of the sealed design, I prefer the M2/M22 sound over the VP150. I cannot really pinpoint the difference, but it has something to do with the VP150 sounding a little thin and condensed? compared to the M22/M2.

Just my opinion.
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#182144 - 11/06/07 11:33 AM Re: EP400s : The Little Subwoofer That Could [Re: Hutzal]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Just wanted to add this last comment on the EP400s to get this thread back on track. He (Jesse) seemed to like the JL113 and EP400s best for bass guitar, though he leaned toward the punch of the JL113. Keep in mind that you can buy 3 EP400s for the price of a JL113.

 Quote:
Eric Clapton bass guitar scene (don't know who the player is)

I preferred the clarity and depth of the JL. The dual Axiom ep400's could match the clarity but had none of the string pluck "punch" that you feel when being in a room with a bass player and his big bass amp. The SVS had very nice "pluck impact" but the notes hung around too much. We tried the SVS in sealed mode and it still didn't match the clarity of the Axiom duals and the JL. I didn't find the Velo or single Axiom 600 to stand out in clarity or punch for bass guitar. However, I think the JL could be eq'd to give more pluck punch but I'm not sure the SVS could be eq'd to reduce the slight overhang.

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#182146 - 11/06/07 11:42 AM Re: EP400s : The Little Subwoofer That Could [Re: JohnK]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
 Originally Posted By: JohnK

The comments in the November S&V magazine review relating to the horizontal dispersion of the VP150 can also be noted.


I've read the article and his comment about lobing. This one is headscratcher for me. Anytime I have heard this speaker, I haven't been able to detect the change in tonality and dispersion within a fairly broad axis.

Most recently I heard a pair of these above and below a projector screen, again another no-no and it sounded pretty good sitting in front of the screen and off to the side. What's bothering me is I know the theory and acoustical problems associated with lobing yet in real world usuage I haven't experienced it with the VP150. It could be one of those things where despite the theory, in practice such configurations and alignments can work pretty well.
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#182149 - 11/06/07 11:55 AM Re: EP400s : The Little Subwoofer That Could [Re: Hutzal]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
Robb,

I'd like to listen to your M2 centres some time.

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#182157 - 11/06/07 12:17 PM Re: EP400s : The Little Subwoofer That Could [Re: jakeman]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
John,

The comments on the string pluck "punch" are very applicable to my situation. I couldn't help but wonder if it was my room acoustics but now a number of facts have conspired to convince me it's not my room. These facts are that others report limited punch in your nicely treated space, the 300W STF-3 that is currently in my room has very good punch (but a terrible finish as I previously reported) and my 150W Sony has punch too. I would take the 600 over the STF-3 and Sony any day but I also want the punch to boot \:\) . I'm therefore convinced it's not my room.

Although the EP400 seems to have the potential to provide that punch with its 150Hz cut-off, it still does not. At least not in my space. I can definitely hear moe punch than the 600 (although I again prefer the 600 over-all) but it's a "teaser" rather than the real thing. When I'm at Jason's later this week, I'll see if the 400 provides any more punch in his much smaller space.

If you situated three 400s in your space, they wouldn't create the "punch" of the Fathom would they? I don't believe the punch is a factor of the number of subs or even the power of the subs. Rather it's a function of the cut-off frequency, the slope thereafter and the transient response of the entire sub-woofer system. I don't know if the Fathom has selectable slopes but if you were hearing that kind of a punch, I'm sure that the slope was 12dB/octave or less.

Again, very informative and thanks for posting.

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#182160 - 11/06/07 12:31 PM Re: EP400s : The Little Subwoofer That Could [Re: Mojo]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
The JL does make for a realistic sounding bass guitar. Despite its small size, keep in mind we are talking about a 135lb sub with 13.5" driver and a huge 2500w amp. Its slope is selectable to 12 or 24db. To my ears I actually thought the EP400 pair with 8" drivers and 500w amps had more clarity and texture, but the punch was with the JL.

Either one has excellent transient response and that tight bass sound. Room acoustics make a big difference. The writer has an IB with 4 18" Avalanche drivers in an untreated room and to me it sounds unnatural with lots of overhang and not as tight sounding with guitar. Terrific with HT effects though.
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