Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Ken,
The power supply is fully capable of supplying the maximum power of all channels together.
My Denon for example is rated at 90W/channel x 7 channels. That's a total of 630W. In fact, it's capable of a lot more.
I can in fact pull out all 630W...and more. Don't let anyone deceive you by telling you that just because you have an integrated receiver rated at 90W/channel, you can only pull 90W out. No way! It's 90W x the number of channels.
Do you understand?
House of the Rising Sone Out in the mid or far field Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833 |
I believe John is saying that you can not add the 2 seperate powers supplies together to achieve the 260 watts for each speaker. He is saying the woofers are still only getting 130W and the mids/tweets are still only getting 130watts, you can not add those 2 together as if they had 260 watts of power to draw from as they don't, there is still only 130 watts of power to each binding post, which is not the same as 260W. The woofers will be drawing from 130W and the mid/tweets will be drawing from 130W, 2 seperate channels on one speaker.
What has happened in this formula is the load on each channel has dropped and you should be able to push each one a little harder before clipping. Tex, Jason is right on this one. You will not get 260 watts to any part of the speaker when biamping in this manner. If you take your measuring equipment and check the power at each part of the binding post, with or without biamping, you will never measure 260 watts. Do you understand?
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
No, I don't. I'm not trying to be difficult. I really don't understand what I may be missing.
Maybe I should post a block diagram so that we can discuss this more concretely. But that'll have to wait until after coffee, muffins and skateboarding.
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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 16
connoisseur
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OP
connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 16 |
There is no ground to measure to… You will not see 260 watts. Your effective current capacity is doubled, but not the voltage (I think).
Also, I may be incorrect, but I have always understood that receivers used one amp with taps off the amp’s windings to power each channel with its own capacitance. I do not think there are seven individual amps in a receiver.
OK, I’ll shut up now…
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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Mike, Sorry buddy but I don't even know where to start with that one . Let me just say that there are indeed separate amplifiers for each channel. Once this is understood, what I've said above will click with everyone. I better post a block diagram because I can see everyone's very confused.
House of the Rising Sone Out in the mid or far field Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
Mike that is why they specifically say discrete power, each channel has its own amp.
Tex, are you suggesting that the 3808 is capable of dumping extra power above the rated power into one of the channels? As far as I know the A1400-8 is the only one capable of adding extra power into any one channel. Each seperate channel in the receiver is not allowed to go that far above its rated power.
I know what you are trying to say, as the same signal is now being amplified by the 2 seperate amps/speaker, the power should be doubled, but the problem is the power is still not doubled as each amp is supplying 2 different speakers(binding straps removed effectively makes 2 speakers out of one), so this splitting of speakers keeps that power seperated. You still have one amp supplying power to a pair of speakers just like you normally would, only 130 watts to the woofers and 130 watts to the mids/tweets, at no time can either speaker set(woofers or mid/tweeters) draw from the other for more power to get above 130watts. The upper frequency range is being amplified by the 130W and the lower range by 130W neither range has the ability to add amplification the other.
Now if we never took off the binding straps(you do have to remove the binding straps to run to 2 amps on one speaker right?) and ran 4 speakers across the front, all with 130w full range, the front channel now has 260 watts of amplified power/channel but still only 130 watts per speaker.
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
No, the 3808 is not capable of dumping power over and above what each channel is rated. Kudos to Axiom...the A1400-8 is the only one that can dynamically assign more power. Your explanation in the second paragraph is absolutely correct. 130W to the woofs and another 130W to the mids/tweets. If the woofs need more than 130W, they can't draw from the mids/tweets. If you look at the speaker system as a black box, it has the potential of drawing as much as 260W . Heh, heh...I was thinking of your last paragraph last night. I see absolutely no reason why you can't run the front and rear channels to a speaker with the binding posts on. That would permit 260W to be shared however the drivers see fit. The only time such a scheme would create problems is when the signals of the front and rear amps are of differing magnitudes and phases causing current to flow from one amp to the other. But this wouldn't be possible if the rears are also configured as fronts and set to the same channel levels. As a matter of fact, even with our Denons today, if we configure the distances of the side and rear channels to be the same as the distances of the fronts and adjust the channel levels to be the same, we should be able to wire all channels to our fronts, put it in 7-channel stereo and send our families packing . Jason, maybe you can try this today with your 80s. Like you said, it never ends .
House of the Rising Sone Out in the mid or far field Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Guys, Do I still need to draw a block diagram? I'd rather play outside right now .
House of the Rising Sone Out in the mid or far field Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833 |
You would still only be getting 130 to any one point of the speaker the same as if you just ran them with 130 a side with the binding straps in place.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80’s
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116 |
Well, I guess that answers my question about the block diagram .
House of the Rising Sone Out in the mid or far field Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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