Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners RPTV vs Plasma

I am also in the market for a new 50" tv. I was pretty set on getting a Sony SXRD RPTV until a tech friend of mine suggested going plasma.

What opinions do you all have out there on this dilemma? Viewing distance for main seating is ~10'. However, there are some seats to the side, but the room is only 13' wide and off axis should be minimal, unless seated close to the tv.

My friend listed bulb replacement costs for RPTV and off axis viewing as things to consider.

I'm looking to see if I can be convinced one way or another.

Thanks,
Sips

Well, Sips (my Evergreen State brother), it just depends on how much you're willing to pay for that thin form factor. I was in a similar situation and decided to buy a 61" JVC instead of a 50" Panasonic plasma. Couldn't be happier. Here is the thread where I anguished.

I would go with the Sony right now if I had the money. Just for interest sake, it can be had for around $1700 including delivery if you live in the U.S. and around $2000 if you live in Canada (Ontario). That is for the KDS-60A3000. Although plasmas deliver a beautiful picture, they are way too expensive. I think the Sony delivers an outstanding picture.

If you want to hang the tv on the wall go for the plazma or an LCD. If you don't mind the 15-19 inch depth, then go for the Sony.

If, for instance, you are going to put the thE TV on a cabinet that holds your gear, then the depth is probably the same as the Sony.

Just a thought from a front projector owner:
You should not automatically shy away from such factors as bulb replacement costs. If a bulb lasts ~3 yrs (~3000 hrs) and costs $350 (and considering you'll be wanting to upgrade to the next tech wave in 10 yrs anyway) the price difference would have to be less than $700 for that to be a major consideration. If, however you are the type to leave the TV on in the background (using 4-6000 hrs/yr), this may, indeed, become an issue. You should do the math first.

Good point, doormat. I'd have gone with a projector if my house was "different".

I thought the Sony had a great picture; the JVC had just as nice a picture and was $150 cheaper for me. I'd have been happy with the Sony, too, I'm sure. Go and watch TV for a while in several different stores to see if anything strikes your fancy.

Thanks for the input thus far. Seems as if I have been thinking along the same lines as you all. I forgot to say that I would be putting the tv in a custom cab that I will build. It's going in the family room and we want the option to hide it. So depth at this point is not a factor.

Since it is going in a cab, it seems that the design of plasma stands projecting in front of the tv would require the tv to be set back into the cab. I'm not sure if that is an issue or not, I just know that a RPTV can be set to the front of the cab.

Doormat I have considered bulb replacement costs over the expected life of the tv, and I still think the Sony is a good deal compared to a plasma that has as good of a reviewed picture.

Thanks, still look forward to more input.

Make sure there is space in the cabinet for proper air flow. The Sony A2000, so I assume the A3000 is the same, suggests at least 4 inches on each side and 12 inches above the TV of open space for air flow.

Zarak,
You've got me a little concerned since the plans for my cab didn't include that much space around the tv. I just checked out the owners manual on the A3000 and it doesn't list the clearances that you mentioned. It just said "To prevent internal heat buildup, do not block the ventillation openings." Where did you see the clearances that you had for the A2000? The manual does say the tv has internal cooling fans that may be heard during operation, is it possible the A2000 didn't have fans and heat was more of an issue?
Thanks

I can't stand it when people do that. I dread visiting my wife's aunt's place because the TV seems to be on 24/7 -- and nobody's ever watching.

Don't forget that in comparison to LCD a plasma sucks enough energy to fry a tire.

In Alberta, we consider the overuse of energy to be our patriotic duty. If Plasma TV's consume that much power, the provincial government may mandate there use in all homes.

I have never seen an RPTV I was impressed with. The picture of a good plasma vs a RPTV is really another league IMO. RPTV I always seen the screen and they dont seem as clear. Probably doesnt help you much but thats just my opinion.

There is a piece of yellow paper that came attached to the back of mine. I just looked at it and it says 4" behind as well. The space it says it wants for cooling is one of the reasons I opted for a stand that it sits on instead of an enclosure.

The A2000 does have the fans as well.

I really like the TV, but wanted to give you a heads up on that aspect of it. I would normally recommend it (actually had my dad get the 55" A2020 a couple of months back), but if you are concerned about that aspect it may not be a good fit. You could try to call Sony and see what they have to say about it before you order anything.

I'd have to dig out the manual for the A2000 to see if it was mentioned there as well.

If you see an A3000 on display somewhere, especially a Sony Style store, it may still have the piece of paper attached to the back, assuming the A3000 has one.

Some of the new ones are quite a bit better. E.g., my new Pioneer 50" plasma is rated at around 440W which compares favorably to the 50" LCD I considered which was rated at about 330W, or at least far more favorably than previous generations of plasma televisions would have been. In actual practice the Pioneer draws only around 2A under my normal viewing conditions so its actual power consumption is a lot closer to 250W than the rated 440W. I presume LCDs would similarly operate below their rated power consumption levels under normal viewing conditions. The upshot is that power consumption may not be a hug drawback for buyers of recent generation plasmas. YMMV of course.

Don't plasmas generate heat as well?

Mark we have a 42" Panny plasma in the master bedroom and although it does generate some heat, I can't tell where it gets abnormally warm to the touch.

Brandon, a plasma certainly does have an awesome picture but have you priced one a 65-73" version? Boy howdy, that's some serious coin....we have a Mitsubishi 73" RPDLP and the picture is amazingly good for a projection screen of that size and for a whole less in terms of money. We're very happy with it.

I guess it depends upon your eyeballs. I honestly didn't consider my RPTV to be ANY KIND of compromise in picture quality over plasma or LCD. As a matter of fact, the only 720p plasma that I thought was in its league was the Panasonic. I didn't really look at 1080p plasmas because they were so far out of my price range.

I would assume the plasmas generate even more heat than the SXRD, but I don't know. If you are looking at a plasma check the restrictions on it for cooling space as well. Maybe most people don't look at that if they are just hanging it on the wall. I can only speak for the Sony, as that is the one I have, but I would expect all of these big TV's have some type of suggested space for air flow.

The only real knock on RPTVs that I think is very valid is that some models do exhibit a bit of lightening of the picture near the center of the screen. Apparently most folks don't even notice it but I'm unfortunate in that I do, otherwise I'd have picked up a 70+" RPTV and would have saved some coin over the 50" plasma. Picture quality of the latest generation(s) however is pretty damn good in general.

Thanks for the heads up Zarak. I contacted Sony and they gave me the same clearances you mentioned: 4" sides and 12" top. I talked with a techie friend who works for Magnolia HiFi's home theater installation department and I'm going to design a passive vent on the top of the cabinet to abate the heat issue. Other than that, I think that with all of the forum's input and a couple of other reviews I've seen, I think the Sony is going to be the best choice for the buck.
Thanks again,
Sips

Glad to be of assistance. Let us know what you think of the TV once you get it all setup.

I don't doubt that you'll be loving it!

I agree with all of this. I have the older sony 50A2000 and could not be happier. The projection system lends to a more film like picture. I see other TVs, like my parents LCD flat screen, and miss my beautiful picture. The 2.5 ms response times on these sets just about eliminates motion blur and I must admit that I have NEVER noticed motion blur on my set. The 10,000:1 contrast on these sets also affords for some pretty decent blacks.

One thing to consider is that these sets come out of the box set to the brightest setting. I can send you my settings (if you get a sony set) if you like.

Also, take into consideration the amount of light in your room. Plasmas require a darker setting whereas the RPTVs are more forgiving of ambient light.

Other notes, these TVs also do not produce 1:1 pixel mapping due to the inherent overscan nature of RPTVs. With my Mac hooked up to the TV, I can barely see my dock when it is set to out put 1920 X 1080. Windows does a better job as you have greater control display drivers which can allow you change the aspect size.

Also, I have my TV plugged into a battery backup as some people have stated issues during power failures. To be more specific, when you normally power off a sony RPTV the fans will continue to run for a minute or 2 in order to cool off the set. A power failure will cause the TV AND fans to turn off at the same time, theoretically this could cause issues. I got a cheap battery back-up just in case...you only need about 5 mins of backup time at most. This will give you time to turn off the TV and allow it to cool down.

You probably have not seen many LCOS RPTV's. LCDRP and DLP look somewhat different.

JVC pioneered the product range with their HDILA and Sony introduced their very popular SXRD a couple years ago. I compared the Sony, JVC and Panny plasma side by side in store and each of them looked very similar.

Plasma is great for off axis viewing and controlled lighting areas where you are not going to get glare from outside sources.

RPTV are better suited to bright areas of uncontrolled lighting.

the A3000 also supports 24p, which some feel lends to a better picture, more specifically, it helps to eliminate motion jitter caused by pulldown from the conversion from 24fps to 60fps.

The reporting of response time by Sony and others is misrepresenting. a 2.5ms response time indicates only the half cycle of response, so the time taken to change from one colour to neutral. Think of a sine wave and cut it in half as that is what they are reporting. The actual response time should be 5.0, which is still very fast but actually slower than most plasmas at 4.0

Also, when I was looking around I was told by an ISF calibrator that the Sony A2000 line did not properly do inverse telecine(3:2 pulldown) and had an inferior videoprocessor to that of JVC, PAnasonic, Mitsubishi, Samsung and the Sony XBR2 sets.

You probably will not notice at all, but the SD programming looks softer on the A2000 compared to the XBR series and the JVC HDILA.

Here is a couple links that shows the A2000 fails the 3:2 test and doesnt resolve every line of a 1080 test pattern, while the JVC HDILA does 3:2 and will show all 1080, albeit only thru HDMI inputs.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/

http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1107hook2/

Personally I would buy the Sony XBR or JVC HDILA over the A2000/A3000 sets. But my next 42" is gonna be a Panny plasma.

Thanks for info Ctown. Concerning the 3:2 pulldown stuff, would that explain the choppieness of the pan down to the ship in the opening scene of Revenge of the Sith? This is the only issue I have noticed on this set.

To tell the truth, i'm rather pleased with SD programming on this set, I was worried when I first started looking into HD sets, but I can barely notice any problems.

Vassillios, I dont own that DVD and dont know if that causes your issue. According to this article

http://hdguru.com/?p=187

lack of inverse telecine can cause loss of resolution or motion artifacts. So if what you are describing is motion artifacting then it may be.

As for the SD, I think some SD is worse than others. I was watching a women's tennis match on an A2000 in SD when they came out and the fact that I almost didnt want to watch Sharapova vs. Dokic match made me keep looking.

I have seen other SD broadcasts that look better on that set as well. The fact seemed to be it handles good programming well, but bad programming worse than other sets.

I'm not impressed by the SD, but I wasn't with other sets either. I really only watch HD, so it doesn't matter much to me. I'd be happy if there was an HD only plan, and I could dump all those other channels.

Yeah, the fact that NFL sunday ticket and a lot of other sports programming is only broadcast on SD channels made it more important to me.

I also liked the fact that my set does resolve all lines of a 1080 test pattern where many of the others did not at this time last year. I'm all about getting the best performance for a reasonable price and the Sony XBR2, JVC HdILA, Panny Plasma, Sammy DLP all fit that bill.

The pioneer plasmas are beautiful, but I'm not paying the premium for black laquer finish.

The 60" version of the Pioneer is the one I have picked to go downstairs, now I just need the $6000 to get it.

I have a wall unit where the Sony 60XBR1 fits beautifully, the wall unit has an open back and it is in the basement where it is a few degrees cooler. It may not be 4inches away from the wall, but I have never had any issues with it.

I believe for price, value and performance in a 60" and up size the LCOS is hard to beat.

PS - off angle viewing is excellent, you can view from the extreme sides (or from floor) with no degredation in picture.

I also found that off-angle viewing was much better on the Sony and JVC than on DLP-based RPTV's.

The one thing is with RPTV you want to be viewing from a position where you eyes are level with the middle of the screen or lower.

When you look downward on most projection sets it looks dimmer because of the angle which the light is projected to the screen. So better to place the set higher than level as opposed to lower. LCD or Plasma dont have that issue.

Thanks for the info! I was asked that question today by an employee and I told him I would research this.

Definitely true.

I thought I'd try mine without the matching stand when I first bought it to save money. I soon had to go back to the store for the stand.

I have a pretty new Panasonic 42" plasma as well as a 4yr old Pioneer SD-533HD5 CRT RPTV. I'm not sure that you can still get high-end CRT RPTVs, and I'm not sure how well the DLP RPTVs work so some of this may be academic. My observations between the CRT RPTV and the plasma:

- RPTV is much more film-like, plasma is more vibrant
- Gray-scales are still better on the RPTV
- No motion issues with either set
- RPTV is much more angle-sensitive especially vertically, but also horizontally
- My plasma can be in the brightest room and the picture will still be vibrant. The RPTV gets washed out in a bright room, and benefits from a room with good light control.

I prefer the CRT RPTV for watching movies, and the plasma for watching television. I like my movies to look like movies.

cheers,
Ayan

Does your CRT RPTV have a protective glass screen on the front of it? Some of the recent Hitachi's did and in that case would make it similar to plasma in the reflective nature of the screen.

The DLP, LCOS, LCDRP microdisplays that have a high gain screen with no protective cover DO look more film like....I definately agree. Some do however complain about the texture in all white backgrounds as they see a SSE (silk screen effect) If you dont look for SSE you normally dont see it.

My RPTV has a protective PLASTIC screen. I haven't noticed the SSE that you are mentioning, but I haven't looked for it either. What exactly should I be looking for?

A CRT RPTV doesnt show SSE. The DLP, LCOS, LCDRP with the slightly textured, high gain screens will show a kind of shimmer on certain backgrounds.

Hockey games or snow scenes with all white background, desert scenes with a sand background can show it too. You can minimize it with settings on your set.

You won't see it on your CRT anyways.

If you have the money for a plasma i suggest the Pioneer Kuro i have the 60" Elite and it is absolutely incredible...the 50" model is the 110...best blacks anywhere...combined with epic 60-500 a good setup

I saw a Kuro over the Holidays. I wasn't really thinking about examining the picture when the thought came into my head that the blacks were really impressive on this set. The owner said it was a 720 model though and I thought these were 1080p. We Googled and apparently there are two models, just in case that will be an issue for you to watch out for.