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#194012 - 01/27/08 12:19 PM Re: I am impressed so far [Re: mapatton]
ihifi Offline
local

Registered: 10/06/06
Posts: 280
Loc: CT
You may also want to check if the Yammy is set to allow output to the sub. I am not sure how bass management is currently implemented in the Yammy. Previously, when you are using a sub and the LFE/Bass out is set to both; frequencies from 90Hz – 20Hz are sent to the sub, as well as the speakers that are set to Large. If you set the LFE/Bass Output to Main, then frequencies from 90Hz - 20Hz are sent only to the main speakers, only if the main speakers are set to large. If the main speakers are set to small, then only frequencies from 20Khz – 90Hz are sent to the main speakers. If all speakers are set to large, then the LFE/Bass Output is mute. You would need to be sure that the sub is allowed to get something.

John
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John
Our HT


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#194013 - 01/27/08 12:24 PM Re: I am impressed so far [Re: mapatton]
Nachosgrande Offline
local

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 258
Loc: New York
I would also check the menu settings on the Yammy to make sure you don't have the bass out to only the mains.
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Epic Grand Master 500 - trying to fit in a VP180!

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#194023 - 01/27/08 03:49 PM Re: I am impressed so far [Re: JohnK]
h317 Offline
buff

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 51
Loc: Ontario, Canada
 Originally Posted By: JohnK
Okay, the first thing(this isn't silly; it's happened before)is to look at the back of the 3800 very closely and make sure that you have the sub cable plugged in to the sub output in the pre-out section rather than the sub input in the section of multi-channel inputs.


I am glad that you said it wasn't silly. I did make that silly mistake. Now the receiver did recognise the subwoofer. Time to pop in the "Saving Private Ryan" DVD.

Thanks for all the help, guys.
_________________________
Yamaha RXV3800; 2xM80, 2xQS8, VP150 and EP350v3; Panasonic 50" TV; PS3; Harmony One; Denon 3930CI

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#194024 - 01/27/08 03:51 PM Re: I am impressed so far [Re: Nachosgrande]
h317 Offline
buff

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 51
Loc: Ontario, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Nachosgrande
I would also check the menu settings on the Yammy to make sure you don't have the bass out to only the mains.


The Yammy has three options: subwoofer only, both, main only. Is it a matter of personal preference or is there a general rule of thumb (i.e. size of subwoofer, listening distance ... etc?)
_________________________
Yamaha RXV3800; 2xM80, 2xQS8, VP150 and EP350v3; Panasonic 50" TV; PS3; Harmony One; Denon 3930CI

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#194030 - 01/27/08 04:40 PM Re: I am impressed so far [Re: h317]
ihifi Offline
local

Registered: 10/06/06
Posts: 280
Loc: CT
Since the your sub is capable of handling the low frequencies better, I would set the mains and satellites to small and the LFE/Bass Output to sub only. Frequencies below 90Hz as well as all of the LFE content will be sent to the sub, where they can be reproduced more faithfully.

John
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John
Our HT


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#194062 - 01/27/08 09:45 PM Re: I am impressed so far [Re: h317]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10361
Very good, 317(lots of inputs and outputs back there, eh?). As John hifi commented, set the bass output to sub only, so that the sub is responsible for the frequencies which it handles best and relieves the mains from some of the lowest bass burden. Some prefer to use the setting called "both", "plus", etc., which makes the mains run full-range(with the sub duplicating that lowest bass)and say that the sound is "fuller", but "full"(whatever that means)isn't necessarily good, and for more accurate sound keep the bass responsibilities divided. Enjoy.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#194243 - 01/29/08 08:50 AM Re: I am impressed so far [Re: JohnK]
h317 Offline
buff

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 51
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Ok, now I am getting sweet sound from the system, I am trying to learn some tricks/tips from various sources.

1st question: I know that I am supposed to flush the centre speaker as close to the front edge of the rack as possible (please correct me if I am wrong). Do I move the front L/R speakers to have same distance from the wall as the centre speaker? Can the front speakers be places a little closer to/farther from the back wall without any adverse effects?

2nd question: What is a "toe-in"? Does M22 benefit from such position (my front speakers are approx. 9 feet apart)?

Thanks.


Edited by h317 (01/29/08 08:50 AM)
_________________________
Yamaha RXV3800; 2xM80, 2xQS8, VP150 and EP350v3; Panasonic 50" TV; PS3; Harmony One; Denon 3930CI

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#194295 - 01/29/08 03:01 PM Re: I am impressed so far [Re: h317]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6735
Loc: PEI, Canada
Often what is ideal for audio is not practical in the home. A few inches difference in distance from seat to center verses seat line to mains won't make a big enough difference to worry about. If you are talking about several feet, it might. Many receivers have settings where you can adjust for the different speaker distances. This would help.

I would try listening with them on an even plane. Pay attention to the sound stage you get (the virtual position of all the singers and instruments that is created by stereo effect.) Then move your mains out where you need them and listen again. If you notice a difference, then you can modify where you like it best within the parameters that the room allows.

Toe in has to do with pointing your two main speakers slightly inward towards the center/main listening position. Sometimes toe in creates a better sound stage. That is to say it helps to ensure you hear all of the sounds as if they are coming from various points in front of you, as the producer intended. If you need toe in and how much, is really impossible for us to say for sure. It can depend on the speaker, the room, the distances, etc. Again, you get to have the fun of playing with it.

I'd say, set em up in a basic, standard formation at the distances that make sense for the room and with no toe in. Enjoy them, because you will enjoy them even without these tweaks, and once you have grown accustomed to how they sound, you can start experimenting with positioning tweaks.

Striving for perfection can be fun. As long as it doesn't get so serious as to lessen the fun. I'm still having fun playing around with my stuff because you always wonder what if.... However, It's my own personal rule that I never do it before or during a movie and never when I want to just listen to the music. Oh, and never when my wife is sleeping. That's another goooood piece of advice.

There is more expert advice to be had for sure by the senior folks here but I like to throw in my basic help when I can as I feel I owe them the time.


Edited by Murph (01/29/08 03:05 PM)
Edit Reason: grammatical
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With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#194370 - 01/29/08 09:42 PM Re: I am impressed so far [Re: h317]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10361
Yes, the center speaker shouldn't be recessed on the rack so that the sound is diffracted by the front edge of the rack. Position it at least flush with the front edge. It isn't critical to have the center and mains the same distance away since receivers adjust the delay to compensate for a difference. The YPAO on the 3800 will do this automatically during calibration.

Toe-in is angling the speakers inward toward the listener. The Axioms have very wide and smooth horizontal dispersion when oriented vertically, but the best sound is still directly on axis, so the M22s should be toed-in so that the tweeters point at your ears. In general, the mains should be separated by about as much as your distance from them.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#194418 - 01/30/08 08:21 AM Re: I am impressed so far [Re: JohnK]
h317 Offline
buff

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 51
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Thanks, JohnK and Murph. I will experiment your suggestions. I believe my front L/R and my listening position do form an equilateral triangle with sides of 9-10 feet. Now how about the QS8s? Should they be placed wider/narrower/same distance apart as the front speakers? Or is it again something for the individual listerner to experiment?
_________________________
Yamaha RXV3800; 2xM80, 2xQS8, VP150 and EP350v3; Panasonic 50" TV; PS3; Harmony One; Denon 3930CI

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