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#196849 - 02/18/08 11:08 AM Re: Help me choose the right amp (M60) [Re: fredk]
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7395
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Some receivers dance better than others. I thought everyone knew that? ;\)
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#196850 - 02/18/08 11:14 AM Re: Help me choose the right amp (M60) [Re: fredk]
ZG Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 135
Loc: Canadian in NYC
 Originally Posted By: fredk

I am a little hesitant to pick up 20 or 30 year old equipment. My understanding is that electronics degrade over time. Something less than 5 years old on the other hand...


That's a shame. I use an amp that is 50 years old - still running wonderfully fine. There are some that would argue that newer amps are far too complicated, which in turn muddies the sound. Think crossovers.

 Quote:
I have yet to hear of any sort of explanation for what in the electronics would 'remove' detail from a signal.


Well, it's often as simple as the sum of its parts. Take just about anything that has a competitor making a similar product and you'll find that one manufacturer will have used inferior parts somewhere down the line.

 Quote:
I tend to go with people like Alan Loft who have been listening for years as part of their job.


Well, you did post questions here, right? So, I'm giving you my very humble opinion. Take it or leave it, it's mine. "Who the heck is she?" Someone who listens to music for a living.

 Quote:
I've been doing a little more digging on Yamaha and it seems that they have a proliferation of receivers but as a rule they seem to deliver more watts per $$ at reasonable specs (on paper at least)...Need to find some more reviews I guess.


My recommendation: Stop reading and get out there and hear the darn thing!

Zoë
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The more you love music, the more you love music.

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#196912 - 02/18/08 09:50 PM Re: Help me choose the right amp (M60) [Re: fredk]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10360
Yeah Fred, don't take subjective impressions about mysterious qualities of certain units seriously. Amplifiers just amplify, and if they cover the 20-20KHz audible range with audibly flat frequency response and with inaudibly low noise and distortion(which is the norm these days, available at quite low cost), that's all that can be done. Of course terms such as "rhythm", "pace", "detail", "imaging", "soundstage", etc., which have nothing to do with amplification, pop up in some reviews when there's really nothing to say. You can be confident that the Yamahas and similar units from the other manufacturers amplify transparently without adding or subtracting anything of audible significance.
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#196953 - 02/19/08 12:11 AM Re: Help me choose the right amp (M60) [Re: ZG]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
Dance!! Now I gotta watch my receiver dance?? I hate dancing.

 Quote:
"Who the heck is she?" Someone who listens to music for a living.

Now you have me intregued. Not a lot of occupations require you to listen to music.

Just to make it clear, I do appreciate you giving me your opinion, just stating which camp I rest in.

I hear you on the quality of components, and that is one of the things I wonder about the different Yamaha lines. Its hard to evaluate whats under the hood without specific electronics knowledge. Thats where a good review is useful. For instance, I have read a couple of Yamaha reviews now where the reviewer took the time to look under the hood and note that used bigger caps than required etc.

One component that will make a difference and should be easier to figure out is the DAC. I don't know how many manufacturers list the dacs in their different receivers.

I also agree about the level of complication of some/many of the newer receivers. Way too many connectors to plug stuff into.

I spent a lot of time looking at how to minimize the number of devices and connections needed to read/play/display all the various discs I have.

Anyway, looking around, now that I have some idea of what I need, I think I can pick up a good not-so-old receiver at a very reasonable price. Some of the less feature laden Yamahas are also very reasonably priced for what they offer.



Edited by fredk (02/19/08 12:12 AM)
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Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#196961 - 02/19/08 12:36 AM Re: Help me choose the right amp (M60) [Re: JohnK]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
Thanks John. I've seen your opinion on the subject in a number of other posts.

 Quote:
if they cover the 20-20KHz audible range

Actaully, for a man of my age, 20-14KHz is probably just fine. ;\)

I was at my brothers place today and he still has the first integated amp I bought. For giggles I decided to look it up on the internet to see how good my taste was back then. Seems I paid around $300 for it in 1978 and it was a good quality amp delivering 40watts/channel. Thats around a grand in today's $$.

Considering I can pick up an amp that delivers 5x100w, probably at much lower distortion levels, thats a heck of a bang for the buck!
_________________________
Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#196995 - 02/19/08 10:19 AM Re: Help me choose the right amp (M60) [Re: fredk]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
 Quote:
Considering I can pick up an amp that delivers 5x100w, probably at much lower distortion levels, thats a heck of a bang for the buck!


But can it dance
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#197042 - 02/19/08 01:46 PM Re: Help me choose the right amp (M60) [Re: Wid]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
....and do the moon walk....
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#197046 - 02/19/08 02:10 PM Re: Help me choose the right amp (M60) [Re: SirQuack]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16258
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
And does it like children?
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#197121 - 02/19/08 08:26 PM Re: Help me choose the right amp (M60) [Re: pmbuko]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
 Originally Posted By: pmbuko
And does it like children?

One a day, no dancing. Helps keep the current up, so I hear...

Fred
_________________________
Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#197141 - 02/19/08 09:28 PM Re: Help me choose the right amp (M60) [Re: fredk]
ZG Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 135
Loc: Canadian in NYC
 Originally Posted By: fredk

Now you have me intregued. Not a lot of occupations require you to listen to music.


I used to work in the music industry and now I write about music and technology for a living.

Hey, there are some great smaller companies making really good integrated amps for reasonable prices. Look at NAD for instance. Their C325BEE has been getting some attention of late (someone else on this board asked for advice on it).

I guess I'm just biased against big companies like Yahama. They are such a mass production company that somewhere down the line they have skimped on something in order to make money and keep the price low.

I hope you find an amp that fits your budget and your listening needs. Oh, and if you get it to dance, take pictures! ;\)

Zoë
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