Re: Elemental Designs sub ?
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339 |
Craigsub about the EP600. The question: Originally Posted by gbondioli Well, I see other people requesting you to rank other subs on your chart, so I'll throw another request out to you, Craig: Axiom EP600 That was tops on my shopping list before the VTF-3 HO came out. I'm getting the feeling that the HO will outperform this $1780 sub, especially with Turbo... And if they are evenly matched, the price difference will help me decide Thanks! The reply: Originally Posted by Craigsub The Axiom EP-600 was slightly ahead of the Ultra, and the EP-500, of course. Based on the experience with the subs that are still here, a non Turbo VTF-3 HO and an EP-600 would both score a 92 on this scale.
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Re: Elemental Designs sub ?
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 Likes: 1
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 Likes: 1 |
Okay, just gotta say it...
I like Craig. I think he's a fun guy. He obviously takes this hobby very seriously, and I have no reason to think that his rankings are overly biased. I do NOT have his broad frame of reference. His rankings undoubtedly provide a valuable service to other audiophiles. I'm certain he knows more about subwoofers than I do, and more than most people do.
But, well, one man's opinion and all that. His room, his methodology, his ears, etc. Don't let somebody else's list deprive you of joy you might otherwise derive.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: Elemental Designs sub ?
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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OP
shareholder in the making
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420 |
If you look around other HT forums there are other lists and they all list really good subwoofers and some rank them as well; not surprisingly differently than Craig's list. However, the better ones still rise to the top and Axiom's are usually on all the lists just a little further down. Are the differences they all talk about audible? Probably moderately to not at all.
It still comes down to what you can afford and what you can hear and like with your own ears, the lists are just helpfull guides for us to use when doing our own comparisons before purchasing.
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Elemental Designs sub ?
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339 |
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Re: Elemental Designs sub ?
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331 |
Okay, just gotta say it...
I like Craig. I think he's a fun guy. He obviously takes this hobby very seriously, and I have no reason to think that his rankings are overly biased. I do NOT have his broad frame of reference. His rankings undoubtedly provide a valuable service to other audiophiles. I'm certain he knows more about subwoofers than I do, and more than most people do.
But, well, one man's opinion and all that. His room, his methodology, his ears, etc. Don't let somebody else's list deprive you of joy you might otherwise derive. Well said, Tom. Craig has said, repeatedly, that his rankings are his opinion, nothing more, nothing less. He presents them in an effort to help folks narrow down their choices, not to tell them what subwoofer to buy. And, like Consumer Reports rankings, a product being somewhere down the list doesn't mean the product isn't a good one. I proudly own an EP500 and I don't feel deprived in the least. It is an excellent subwoofer and pleases me every time I use my system. It does the job beautifully.
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
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Re: Elemental Designs sub ?
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853 |
Well said, Tom. Craig has said, repeatedly, that his rankings are his opinion, nothing more, nothing less. He presents them in an effort to help folks narrow down their choices, not to tell them what subwoofer to buy. And, like Consumer Reports rankings, a product being somewhere down the list doesn't mean the product isn't a good one.
I dunno. He knows my views about his list. I've always enjoyed his opinions and usually have similar views, but his list stopped making sense to me and several other informed people a long time ago. I won't go into all the contradictions on that list but several of his recent scores did not pan out with at least 2 group listening tests. In particular they don't jive with comparisons of the JL113, PB13-Ultra, DD-18 and EP600 for example. Part of the problem is that his numerical rankings are not at all as scientific as suggested since very few of those subs were compared side by side. His music scores in particular are highly subjective and not corroborated in group tests yet they carry a 50% weight. Then some scores, like the EP500, don't reflect the unanimous favourable opinions of the listening group that included Jack and me. Reluctantly, when asked I suggest that people not place much credence on that list except as an information source. Kudos for the effort in any event.
John
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Re: Elemental Designs sub ?
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7 |
The subwoofers were each placed in the identical room position [...] This is the part that I don't like. Is each subwoofer going to have the same ideal location?
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Re: Elemental Designs sub ?
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339 |
I'm not slamming the EP500 or Axiom. I own one. I bought it on Craig's recommendation knowing that I could send it back if I didn't like it.
I did send back the M60s and bought M80s. Thank you Axiom.
Over the past three years people watching tv at my house are overwhelmed at the sound.
The OP asked for an opinion. I gave him Craig's opinion.
I think the list is a very nice compilation for some of what is available and at what price.
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