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#380653 - 07/25/12 10:56 AM Re: Fitness Thread [Re: jakewash]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5912
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I'm thinking about getting one of these. Ultega F-Bike. Sit in front of tv and exercise, then put away in closet.




http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UD5Y3A/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

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#380658 - 07/25/12 12:28 PM Re: Fitness Thread [Re: CatBrat]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I'm thinking about getting one of these. Ultega F-Bike. Sit in front of tv and exercise, then put away in closet.




http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UD5Y3A/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER



Those types of things end up being poor quality. Because of that, most people tend not to use it. If you really want a bike trainer, I'd just use a bike you already have and put it on a quality trainer like these.

http://www.cycleops.com/products/trainers.html

I picked mine up for ~$100 on craigslist from someone who barely used it.

Honestly, you're better off doing your own interval cardio training if want something during TV. Body weight would even work. Watch TV, then during a commercial break, do as many situps/pushups/etc as you can without a break, or ride the bike at high intensity. (This is AKA AMRAP, as many reps as possible). The key is HIGH intensity, don't baby it since it's only 2 minutes. As you get better, you can stretch out that 2 minutes.

Or you can do a tabata workout while watching TV, though I doubt you'll even be able to concentrate on TV after the 2nd round. I've done these with pushups, situps, air squats, weights, box jumps, etc (just pick one exercise BTW). And yes, you can get a full workout in 4 minutes, wherein only 2/3 of the time is actual effort. Some workouts have left their mark on me for days, but the benefits did appear.

http://tabatatraining.org/?p=18

Just be mindful of heart rate with these types of exercise. Your HR will max, so you need to make sure you can handle it. But the point here is training efficiency. Instead of spending what's called 'garbage miles/minutes' training, you spend less time training harder. Granted, any exercise is better than none at all in the end.


Edited by oldskoolboarder (07/25/12 12:31 PM)

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#380661 - 07/25/12 01:21 PM Re: Fitness Thread [Re: jakewash]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5912
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I'm not a young pup anymore and the situp, pushup, highspeed bike thing is out of the question. That's for younger, in-shape people. I have an irrepairable hernia that would not work with this kind of a workout.

I also need something that I can fold up and put in a very small coat closet when not in use. So, for me anyway. I think what I picked out is probably the best choice.

I've looked over the page you listed, and I still haven't been able to figure out what these things are. I don't see anyplace to sit, etc. I definitely don't want to have to purchase something that's non-portable, causing me to have to also purchase a bike and have this mess all sitting in my living room in front of the TV forever.

For me, there are no commercials.

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#380663 - 07/25/12 01:48 PM Re: Fitness Thread [Re: jakewash]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
That link was interesting - I didn't know what Tabata was, other than a word I keep seeing. One of the videos on the site has a 4x4 session but from your text and the text on the site it looks like the actual session can be just 4 minutes. I imagine you don't need to do cardio if you're working all-out like this!
_________________________
Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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#380677 - 07/25/12 04:19 PM Re: Fitness Thread [Re: CatBrat]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I'm not a young pup anymore and the situp, pushup, highspeed bike thing is out of the question. That's for younger, in-shape people. I have an irrepairable hernia that would not work with this kind of a workout.

I also need something that I can fold up and put in a very small coat closet when not in use. So, for me anyway. I think what I picked out is probably the best choice.

I've looked over the page you listed, and I still haven't been able to figure out what these things are. I don't see anyplace to sit, etc. I definitely don't want to have to purchase something that's non-portable, causing me to have to also purchase a bike and have this mess all sitting in my living room in front of the TV forever.

For me, there are no commercials.


Oops, my bad. Those are trainers used with your existing bike. You attach it to your bike's rear wheel, turning your own bike into a trainer. So you have a bike, it allows to repurpose your bike for indoor training use. You can adjust the resistance to make it harder/easier, in addition to using the gears on your bike.

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#380680 - 07/25/12 04:32 PM Re: Fitness Thread [Re: Amie]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
Originally Posted By: Amie
That link was interesting - I didn't know what Tabata was, other than a word I keep seeing. One of the videos on the site has a 4x4 session but from your text and the text on the site it looks like the actual session can be just 4 minutes. I imagine you don't need to do cardio if you're working all-out like this!


Correct, the whole workout is 4:00 long. No need for cardio, it already is.

Here's a squat example. The Asian woman in the white sweater is doing them with full extension at the top and bottom. She's Annie Sakamoto, a Crossfit legend. 20s of squats/10s of rest in the bottom position, done 8 times. Then you're done, literally and figuratively. wink Your 'score' is the lowest amount of reps in a 20s period. The idea is to keep a rep number and maintain it. You don't want to start out with 20 squats at the 1st round because you may end up with 5 squats on the 8th round, making your score 5. Anyone, of any ability can do it, you scale it to your existing ability. If you can't squat all the way, just go as low as possible, keeping good form w/ knees over toes and back in proper alignment. The hardest part? Walking afterwards...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku-eOGXScOQ

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#380686 - 07/25/12 07:53 PM Re: Fitness Thread [Re: oldskoolboarder]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
You could always try this Ace Power exerciser, but you might need to import it.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented moreÖ" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#380688 - 07/25/12 08:00 PM Re: Fitness Thread [Re: pmbuko]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
You could always try this Ace Power exerciser, but you might need to import it.


Crap, my EYES!

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#380690 - 07/25/12 09:02 PM Re: Fitness Thread [Re: oldskoolboarder]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
[steps on soapbox]

Hereís an article about ďTabataĒ training (in quotes because as the article points out almost no one doing ďTabataĒ are actually following the protocol used in the study).

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/researc...nd-vo2-max.html

Quote:

My Comments

First and foremost, thereís no doubt that while the steady state group only improved VO2 max, it did not improve anaerobic capacity; this is no shock based on the training effect to be expected. And while the Tabata protocol certainly improved both, not only did the Tabata group still end up with a lower VO2 at the end of the study, they only made progress for 3 weeks before plateauing on VO2 max and 4 weeks for anaerobic capacity.

Interestingly, the running coach Arthur Lydiard made this observation half a century ago; after months of base training, he found that only 3 weeks of interval work were necessary to sharpen his athletes. More than that was neither necessary nor desirable. Other studies using cycling have found similar results: intervals improve certain parameters of athletic performance for about 3 weeks or 6 sessions and then they stop having any further benefit.

Iíve asked this question before but for all of the ĎAll interval all the timeí folks, if intervals stop working after 3-4 weeks, what are people supposed to do for the other 48-49 weeks of the year. Should they keep busting their nuts with supra-maximal interval training for no meaningful results?

On that note, itís worth mentioning that the Tabata group actually did a single steady state workout per week. Is it at all possible that this contributed to the overall training effect (given that 70% VO2 max training improved VO2 max in the steady state only group)? Does anybody else find it weird that the Tabata promoters ignore the fact that the Tabata group was doing steady state work too?

Itís also relevant to note that the study used a bike for training. This is important and hereís why: on a stationary bike, when you start to get exhausted and fall apart from fatigue, the worst that happens is that you stop pedalling. You donít fall off, you donít get hurt, nothing bad happens. The folks suggesting high skill movements for a ĎTabataí workout might want to consider that. Because when form goes bad on cleans near the end of the ĎTabataí workout, some really bad things can happen. Things that donít happen on a stationary bike.

As well, I want to make a related comment: as you can see above the protocol used was VERY specific. The interval group used 170% of VO2 max for the high intensity bits and the wattage was increased by a specific amount when the workout was completed. Let me put this into real world perspective.

My VO2 max occurs somewhere between 300-330watts on my power bike, I can usually handle that for repeat sets of 3 minutes and maybe 1 all out-set of 5-8 minutes if Iím willing to really suffer. Thatís how hard it is, itís a maximal effort across that time span.

For a proper Tabata workout, 170% of that wattage would be 510 watts (for perspective, Tour De France cyclists may maintain 400 watts for an hour). This is an absolutely grueling workload. I suspect that most reading this, unless they are a trained cyclist, couldnít turn the pedals at that wattage, thatís how much resistance there is.

If you donít believe me, find someone with a bike with a powermeter and see how much effort it takes to generate that kind of power output. Now do it for 20 seconds. Now repeat that 8 times with a 10 second break. You might learn something about what a Tabata workout actually is.

My point is that to get the benefits of the Tabata protocol, the workload has to be that supra-maximal for it to be effective. Doing thrusters or KB swings or front squats with 65 lbs fo 20 seconds doesnít generate nearly the workload that was used during the actual study. Nor will it generate the benefits (which Iíd note again stop accruing after a mere 3 weeks). You can call them Tabatas all you want but they assuredly arenít.

Finally, Iíd note that, as I discussed in Predictors of Endurance Performance VO2 max is only one of many components of overall performance, and itís not even the most important one. Of more relevance here, VO2 max and aerobic endurance are not at all synonymous, many people confuse the two because they donít understand the difference between aerobic power (VO2 max) and aerobic capacity (determined primarily by enzyme activity and mitochondrial density within the muscle). Other studies have shown clearly that interval work and steady state work generate different results in this regards, intervals improve VO2 max but can actually decrease aerobic enzyme activity (citrate synthase) within skeletal muscle.

The basic point being that even if the Tabata group improved VO2 max and anaerobic capacity to a greater degree than the steady state group, those are not the only parameters of relevance for overall performance.


Note that like the author Iím not knocking HIIT Iíve done it for decades (long before it became fashionable) in moderation and for what itís good at developing. Iím just trying to prevent more people from thinking itís a fitness panacea causing them to forgo or unduly cut back on other fitness methods.

Now if 4 minutes of HIIT is all that your schedule allows for, then hell yes itís better than nothing. However, for those too busy to exercise I submit the cartoon in this article (sorry too lazy to log into photobucket and make a link).

http://www.military.com/military-fitness/spouse-and-family/attitude-adjustment

[/steps off soapbox]
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#380691 - 07/25/12 09:54 PM Re: Fitness Thread [Re: pmbuko]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
Ooooh my . . . at last, I've found my signature file. Thank you, Peter!
_________________________
Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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