Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Cheater plugs

Our apartment has only 2 prong outlets. Other than my dorm room in college, I've only lived in places with 2 prong outlets. So I'm rather familiar with cheater plugs.

One great annoyance to me is that they make the plug stick out an extra inch and a half from the wall. Does anyone know if someone makes a short extension cord style (like less than a foot long) 2 prong to 3 prong adapter? This would make furniture placement easier (not to mention hiding outlets from The Boy.)

I know that this is not necessarily the safest thing in the world, but tell that to my landlord and/or the people who make the safety regulations.

Heck, you could even have one of the little screw tabs on the extension. I try to use those whenever possible, which has caused its own problems, as they have a tendency to pull on the plugs and make them rather unstable in the socket.

Is using a cheater plug any better/safer than simply replacing the two-prong outlets with three-prong outlets that are not grounded? You could buy new outlets at Homeless Despot for about $1.50 each, flip the breaker, and swap them out in about 5 minutes.

That was another question I had that I had forgotten to ask.

Interestingly, when I have the cheater plugs screwed into the center screw on the plate, my various UPSes show no wiring fault. Without the screw, they freak out.

Yes, I suppose the outlet and box constitute "ground", albeit a poor one. Never mind. mdrew will probably be along shortly to chastise me for suggesting dangerous electrical shenanigans. I'm going back to my room now. NOW!

So... either way you're screwed!

It's a never ending problem with older houses. The worst is when you get to a new place (renting), it all looks grounded, but it aint. That annoys me. I have no problems (i.e. less problems!) if I make the conscious decision of bypassing the ground. Where I am now, my computer is not truly grounded, but the landlord did renovation two years ago and installed me a brand new grounded 15A circuit in the living room. So, at least my AV is with ground. BUT, the living room is also filled with these false grounded plates and I had to open one once and saw that it was a cheater...

After that long ranting, here's my point: if you are renting, please do not replace the wall plates as the next tenant might think it is grounded when visiting the appartment while it's not (and not sure you can trust the landlord if you asked the question).

I do have a friend who is an electrician. But I'm a little nervous about asking him that... he might sigh at me.

Eric, you have a good point there. I've made a number of changes to this apartment (yes, without LL approval, don't really give a damn), but this would be the only one that could decrease the value for a future tenant.

Right - I just assumed you'd undo the change when/if you moved out. I certainly wouldn't advocate perpetuating the scenario Eric described. Sorry for the confusion.

Ken, if it were me I'd replace the outlets and add a line to a TO UNDO WHEN WE MOVE list. If the UPS complains of no wiring fault on a two-prong outlet with the screw engaged, then it should do the same with a three prong outlet. I'd test this of course. You may need to run a short length of wire from the outlet to the box in order to get the same "grounding".

Well, before I do this (no matter how well intentioned my good buddies are here), I'd like to hear from an electrician about the safety of doing this. Presumably something like this is done in the bathroom and the kitchen which are required to have (and do have) 3 prong outlets.

Seeing how the fault clears, I’d be interested in the receptacle wiring and box type. Is the box and cover metal? Is the receptacle grounded by physical attachment of the ground (bare copper) wire? Grounding adapters (commonly referred to as “cheaters”) are designed to provide you a direct path to ground. But, they only work if the screw is secured to the receptacle and the receptacle is physically grounded.

Depending on how old the apartment wiring is, it may be a simple two wire without ground. There’s nothing you can do for that other than run a ground wire from everything to a water main……

Tom, I just don’t know what to say…..you friggin nut.

The cover is plastic, but I have secured the screw to either the center screw holding the cover on or the screw holding the socket assembly to the box. I don't know if all of the boxes are metal, but I suspect they are, given the apparent age of the place. Out back, there is a grounding wire extremely poorly attached (read, not really attached at all) to one of the faucets. I should probably fix that at some point. But I don't know where that wire goes back to; it appears to go up to the roof, where my neighbors have their Dishes. Where I'm not allowed to have a Dish. Different story...

At the moment, because of a ground loop problem (surprise!), the EP350 is the only thing on a cheater plug that is not screwed in.

Well if the fault goes away with the screw attached to the center receptacle screw, that tells me that your wiring most likely is a two wire with bare ground, and that they did attach the ground wire to the receptacle. It’s nothing to pull the cover off and look. The ground screw is to the side (usually) of the receptacle and you should be able to see it.

Changing receptacles is a no-brainer thing to do. Just make damn sure the breaker is open. Use a Volt meter to verify zero state. The binding screws for the neutral and line wire are color coded. The yellowish screw is for line (black) wire and the silver screw is for the neutral (white). The ground (bare) goes to a green screw that is quite obviously not a screw for the line or neutral. Most receptacles also have push in attachment where you just strip the wire and shove it into a hole in the back of the receptacle (see what Peter does with that sentence). I never use these because I’ve seen some fail and allow the wire to fall out. I use the binding screws. I’ll put a 180 bend in the wire and rap it around the screw with the tail to the right and tighten it up. If your wondering why the tail goes to the right, it’s so when you tighten the screw up, the wire will pull onto the receptacle verses trying to push it off and out from under the screw.

Getting the receptacle back into the box is the hardest part. You sort of twist it back and forth to get the wires to bend and allow you to push it into the box.

I've installed a few light switches before, but never a receptacle. The last one I installed was exciting, since the box had both a switch and a receptacle in it. I think the push attachment was used on the previous ones. I had some trouble getting it to work (don't remember why; maybe I didn't get the wire on tight), so I turned on the breaker to check my wiring. I accidentally shorted out the circuit with my voltmeter probe tip. That was ... exciting? Fortunately, I was not hurt.

I'll have a look under one of the plates to see if I can find a grounding wire. I think I'll also replace the ground/pipe connection on the wall outside.

LOL.....

Hey, we've all done that. My VOM has some "interesting" looking probes. It's really cool when it welds itself to the ofending ground....

If you need any help, feel free to ask. I can probably post a picture or two if needed.

Cool, thanks!

Despite (or likely, because of) being electrocuted twice as a kid -- thumb in a light socket (hey, it fits) and screwdriver in an outlet -- I somehow never got a healthy respect for (house voltage) electricity. When I was replacing my first set of outlets in this house, I realized that they were all downstream of a GFI outlet in a bathroom after they weren't getting any power. I consciously did not open the breaker and carefully pulled the receptacle out and unhooked it. I didn't get electrocuted, but I got to see a lovely arc (and the sound of the GFI in the bathroom tripping) when the leads touched.

Brains of a turnip.

Is that because of the shock or before the shock?

Turnips are the smartest vegetables around.

Nope, apparently that title goes to broccoli.

Safety - Shmafety

Take a pair of side-cuts and snip the little ground thingy off at the roots. It will then fit nicely into a two-pronged outlet!

Better yet, just drill a 7/8" deep, 3/8" diameter hole centered 1/2" below the midpoint between the exiting prong sockets and you're golden.

Now that's safe!

OMG, I'm just reading this whole thread now.

Looks like Axiom needs to add a new accessory to it's store.

I would be careful at rewiring or altering the wiring of an apartment. If there is ever an electrical fire, you could be in one heck of a liability problem!

The Rat makes good sense here, which is why I abandoned this thread awhile back. But I'm thinking again, now that my EP350's cheater plug has fallen out of the wall for the 500th time (or been pulled by a certain little someone.) I found a 6" (yes, inch) 2 prong extension cord at Rat Shack. I have no idea what the gauge is, but I'm guessing 16 ga. Would this be safe to use from the wall to the cheater plug to the EP350? Obviously it wouldn't be grounded, but since I have that ol' ground loop problem, I don't necessarily want it grounded anyway.

However, I have other outlets with cheater plus hanging out that I do want grounded. So what would happen (potentially bad) if I were to use the same arrangement but also run a bit of wire from the screw on the wall plate to the little tab on the cheater plug? If I were to do this, should I use solid 14 gauge or the like?

Ken, if I follow, you're not using "safe" in relation to grounding, but as to whether the gauge of the wire is adequate. As we briefly discussed the other day on an extension cord question, all the usual size extension cords(even 18 gauge with a 10 amp rating)have more than enough current carrying capacity for the rather modest needs of a sub amp. It's stuff like hair dryers and hot plates that carry a heavier load.

Yes, my second idea would be safe as it refers to grounding. That one I'm really unsure about, as I have found no products (short of a cord meant for Japan?) that fit my description.

As I understand it, due to the very short length of the extension cord in question (1 foot), the resistance, and therefore gauge, shouldn't be a problem.

After a little bit of reading, it would seem that I'm fine on the sub (or as fine as I am now, without the ground tab screwed in) with the little extension cord. However, it would seem that my second idea (the independent ground wire) is just asking for trouble. It might work, but it might kill me or my family, too--I simply do not know, and a little inconvenience is vastly preferable.

Honestly, I'd get that circuit re-run with a proper ground.

Unfortunately, I live in a rental, and my landlord couldn't care less what we want. I've already painted one room in this place, I'm not going to sink more money in it than that.

Hey pmbuko, you're lucky you didn't grow up in Oz: 250 volts, baby. Bang, you're dead :-)

Like the deadly wildlife wasn't enough.

Reading this thread title made me envision giant corks.






I suppose it should work the other way, too, but I didn't envision that one.

yeah, we were talking to one of our new neighbours yesterday, and they said that this area used to be called snake valley. Mind you, apparently the problem has been reduced considerably since a wannabe Amish crowd moved in. I reckon it's like St Patrick driving the snakes out of Ireland

Reminds me of the story of a (very) large cattle property in Northern Oz, where they had a magnificent homestead, including inground pool, and tended to have lotsa visitors. One of these took to swimming laps every morning, and after a week announced to those at breakfast that the pet snake really seemed to enjoy swimming. There was a long silence around the table. Turned out she'd been swimming every morning with a tiger snake: one of the more lethal of our scaley pals :-)

Regards,
David the snake tamer

And I still haven't been paid for that!

They were going to pay you in snakes, but you got rid of them all!

D'Oh!