Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Receiver Sound Quality?

Jason, there'd be no reason to expect a "clear difference"(or any audible difference at all)between receivers(regardless of price differences)when their amplifiers are operating within their designed limits. This of course doesn't apply when processing circuits which are specifically intended to change the sound, e.g., tone controls and room equalization, have been put into effect. So far as basic amplification, competent and conscientious engineers apply basic audio design principles which have been well-known for years to achieve transparent amplification, which results from audibly flat response from 20-20KHz together with inaudibly low noise and distortion. One of the great things about the modern audio scene is that this has been accomplished with even receivers of quite modest cost and listeners have no good reason to be concerned about their "sound quality".

Of course, reports to the contrary abound, but these lack the reliability of a carefully controlled blind listening test. In particular trying to "listen" to different receivers at a store is essentially meaningless even if the salesman hasn't taken steps to favor a particular unit. The volume between the different units will always vary at least slightly and the louder one will sound better, although it won't be apparent as a level difference, but will be described as "clarity", "soundstage", etc. This is why in blind listenibg tests a basic requirement is to adjust the overall levels to be identical within 0.1dB.

A good summary statement of this reality is found in the Audio Critic article "Electronic Signal Paths Do Not Have a Personality!" .

DACs were also brought up, and it should be kept in mind that DACs are a mature technology, as Alan among others has pointed out several times. Excellent chips which perform the conversion without audible flaws are bought by manufacturers for as little as $1 each in very large quantities. The small measurable differences which still exist don't have audible consequences.

As always John, your clear method of explaining technical matters in easy to understand dialog and taking the time to include references makes me wonder if you may or may not be a Vulcan and I mean that in a very complimentary manner.

I always enjoy reading your posts.

He does tend to channel Spock, doesn't he?

John, thanks for the reply. I thought about addressing my question directly to you when I posted as I really wanted to hear your opinion, but I knew you'd find the post sooner or later.

Great informative response, thank you.

Damn green blooded Vulcan!

I appreciate that everyone handled their discussion of DACs in a civil manner. So I'll try to not sound defensive.

I knew it would draw some doubts. I was deliberately pointing out that this was a while back, about 6 years ago when I think about it. I suspect they were pretty mature even then, but within my abilities to keep volume levels consistent (and any processing being done) they didn't sound the same to me.

Of course, I did just get diagnosed last week with Meniere's Disease and realize now that I have suffered from this for a long time so I'll take my lumps.

Rich

Great post JohnK, when I wrote mine up I was hoping you would ellaborate

I mentioned it on my other post about the Sherwood NC amp, but I did a limited blind test at Magnolia a little while back. At the time, I was fairly set on the Denon 3808. After countless hours of scouring the internet I concluded the Onkyo overheats and has lip syncing issues, the Sony has handshaking and firmware issues, the Yamaha doesn't allow for whiter than white or blacker than black to pass through (my tv is compatible with this feature so it was an issue for me), and the Pioneer had a crappy UI and an outdated video processing chip (faroujda).

Anyways, the blind test was between the Yammy rx-v3800 , Denon 3808, and Pioneer Elite vsx-94txh. The differences were very slight, and not discernable until reasonably loud (which I listen to). Being played through the speakers I was going to buy (Sonus Faber Concertino Domus) I noticed an audible difference between the receivers on the same Audioslave song in the vocals primarily. Chris Cornells voice was (to my vastly untrained and unprofessional ears) more smooth, lifelike and less sharp on the Pioneer than either of the other two. I was not informed of which receiver I was listening to each time, but only privy to the monicker 'Receiver a/b/c.' I was also surprised to find out it was the cheapest of the three.

I'm not sure if he purposely slanted things in the Pio's favor, I find it hard to believe due to the price in comparison to the others (more money, bigger sale) and the only slight difference in sound (would probably be more dramatic if it were a 'set-up'). But I will admit that anything is possible. I can say I am happy with my decision and I hope I didn't come off as a 'know-it-all' fanboy. I really have no brand loyalty whatsoever, so I hope this was of some help to someone.

max

Higher price doesn't always mean higher profit margin. Stock levels and better bulk rates can also slew to the cheaper brand. People also like to be shown that they are getting high quality at a bargain price. Not saying, or even implying, that this is the case for the Pio. Just throwing it out there as a generalization.

There's also the question of what processing was being done on those receivers; this is why receiver comparisons, even blind tests are so difficult.